i need a t-shirt now

So I had this entire grumpy post, and now I do not.

This is why.

thefourthvine sees girls lining up to watch the three AM premiere of the movie Eclipse.

Oh, and girls? Please don't laugh along with people you think are laughing at you. Nothing you're doing is stupid or embarrassing. You care about something. You love something. It's important to you, and that makes it valuable. If people think that's funny? Please, please: just tell them to go fuck themselves.

I wish this could be handed out on embossed cards. And not just to teenage girls.

Posted at Dreamwidth: http://seperis.dreamwidth.org/29940.html. | You can reply here or there. | comments

Comments

[skadi.livejournal.com]

Word!

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*hearts fandom*

[iteari.livejournal.com]

I like that kind of thinking there. Especially since that whole 'boy toys are awesome and girl toys suck!' mentality gets old so fast.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Especially since that whole 'boy toys are awesome and girl toys suck!' mentality gets old so fast.

Isn't that the truth? *sighs*

[porntestpilot.livejournal.com]

I find it humorous that these books teach women that they only find value through men and of course men are the key to immortality [per Mormon] and it's excused because we're celebrating a female based fandom. I'm starting to value female-based fandom less because of the things girls seems to be fans of - not because there aren't enough explosions but because look at this crap. What is it with fandom? They harp any kind of perceived offensiveness to death but real offensiveness is brushed off.

Girlwonder.org? Stephanie Brown was Robin for 90 days and not Bruce's adopted child but of course they can't treat her any differently than Jason because I say so, that's why. I was more offended by that damn skirt. If Cassandra Cain had gotten a damn website maybe I'd care - but the major thing for her is by a guy. She had a huge moral dilemma, struggled emotionally, was half-Asian, and was competent as fuck. But no, everyone identifies with Steph because they think they would be her so now she's Bargirl. What progress!

Twilight? You will die without a man. He will protect you, he can stalk you, it's okay. Buffy was the freaking hero - she fought back - Bella simpers and falls down a lot. Everyone identifies with her.

Sex And The City - Once again it's about men and being shallow! And everyone loves shoes right?

TV Sookie Stackhouse is a twit. What happened to Blood Ties? It wasn't smutty enough right? Maybe we should put Anita Blake on TV so I can stab myself in the eye. No wonder everyone prefers Harry Dresden - his female friends are intelligent and amazing.

Grey's Anatomy? Holy shit. When Jeffrey Dean Morgan was on the View that's all they wanted to blather about - nothing about the role he was actually on the damn show for - a serious, misogynistic role that could have been a great discussion.

Our rolemodels are crappy. This is embarrassing. I'm embarrassed. All this crap about responsible media and how we're all accountable for our actions until boys mock it and then we're all up in arms. Guys lose respect for women when they see this shit. Not because it's brainless, but because it shows women as less and women eat it up. What does that say to men?

I'll stop mocking this crap when it stops being horrible. Just because a girl likes it doesn't give it value.

[sapote3.livejournal.com]

Just because a girl likes something you don't like doesn't take away from her value. There, fixed it for you.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I'm starting to value female-based fandom less because of the things girls seems to be fans of - not because there aren't enough explosions but because look at this crap.

Not because it's brainless, but because it shows women as less and women eat it up. What does that say to men?

I'm starting to value female-based fandom less because of the things girls seems to be fans of

What does that say to men?

...are you fucking serious?

[cidercupcakes.livejournal.com]

So Twilight is problematic because it seems to have the message that you'll die without a men, and therefore men will think it's stupid. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[cereta.livejournal.com]

Guys lose respect for women when they see this shit.

And lord knows, what guys respect is the ultimate measure.

[amireal.livejournal.com]

Our rolemodels are crappy. This is embarrassing. I'm embarrassed. All this crap about responsible media and how we're all accountable for our actions until boys mock it and then we're all up in arms. Guys lose respect for women when they see this shit. Not because it's brainless, but because it shows women as less and women eat it up. What does that say to men?

My enjoyment of *anything* in general is not predicated on what I think guys will think of it. That sort of defeats the purpose of the whole endeavor if it's not about me. Enjoyment can be a selfish thing, that's perfectly okay.

You seem incredibly angry, and hey, I get that, I feel that way too sometimes, but I don't have the time to wait for the perfect, or event he almost perfect entertainment, I'd much rather find enjoyment and happiness and knowledge. I am aware of the faults around me but enjoying stories in which they exist does not lessen my enjoyment for me. Also, my enjoyment is not about you. Or anyone else.

[shinetheway.livejournal.com]

So...because you assume guys are going to mock something then you're going to mock it as well? Because--why? You want the guys to respect you? You want the girls to respect you?

Are you even listening to yourself?

My recommendation is to stop giving a shit about what guys might say, as though this is recess in the third grade and the boys are teasing the girls about cooties. The Twilight series is not my thing, but I have no problem seeing WHY it is so popular, and just because a population of hypothetical "guys" don't approve of that, that doesn't actually mean their opinion matters. Their viewpoint is not the default, wherein variations from that viewpoint are "deviant" or "biased". (Technically, biologically, there are more women than men, so as far as I'm concerned, if a man has a problem with Twilight, that man can suck it.)

By the way, the Harry Dresden series is unreadable to me for the blatant misogyny of his books. Who told you his female friends are intelligent and amazing--men? So now are you going to mock me because my opinion deviates from yours/theirs?

[aivilo-18.livejournal.com]

Well, shit! I've been watching these movies all wrong.

Here I am thinking it's all about watching for any indication that Edward and Jacob were busy swapping tongues off-screen when I should have been focusing on the problematic gender politics and being all apologetic and ashamed that I find this fandom to be a complete and total broody stoner riot. I'm such a bad feminist.

[harborshore.livejournal.com]

You're going to pick Stephanie Brown to be down on? Stephanie Brown who made herself a hero despite where she comes from? Who asked Cass to help train her even though it meant getting beaten up over and over and over because Cass was astronomical amounts of better? Who dared to keep doing something she wasn't especially good at when she started out, when girls are taught they must be perfect right away or shouldn't bother trying?

Yes, she's a terrible role model. I have no idea why girls find her inspiring. And before you say anything--my favorite DC character is in my icon, but the three I love the most are Cass, Steph, and Babs, because they all overcame such shitloads of adversity in their very own way.

I want a button that says that!

[boggit.livejournal.com]

That's such a wonderful way to put it! I definitely have to deal with feeling embarrassed and stupid about my fannishness. I haven't even told any of my friends I'm having an Adam Lambert crazy, because they'd totally judge me and make fun of me and I don't want to taint the glittery awesome.

On the other hand, I wish I wasn't such a coward and could just say, "Yeah, I'm going to see this awesome amazing rock star sing his heart out in leather pants and a codpiece, and I totally bought boots with sexy zippers for the occasion. And I am possibly going to get to see cool people from online at both shows (you and your friend in Seattle, maybe) and (me_maneuver in Portland)", so you should be jealous, not judgmental.

Re: I want a button that says that!

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I've told anyone who would listen. *g*

And let me tell you, sitting outside with a bunch of very much not-twenty year old professional women who are telling me "why not a leather minidress?" and "When I saw KISS" and reminiscing about their concert going experiences (ONGOING) really puts things in perspective.

I have never felt so out of my league. Also, they gave me lots of clothing advice. Apparently, less is more. And less of that better. As the one who took three months vacation to follow the Grateful Dead a few years ago reminds me frequently.

Leather minidress? *helpless*

Re: I want a button that says that!

[teh_ace.livejournal.com]

JUST DO IT!

I did the cringe and embarrassed fake-laugh whenever I mentioned being fannish about an AI-alumni and going to his concert, until I found enlightenment ;)

Now I'm like "yeah, I love this awesome amazing guy who acts a rock star, and I'm saving up money to go see him and his cock sing his heart out in leather pants and a codpiece, and I will totally make a peacock-inspired dress for the occasion, and I made new friends irl from internet acquaintances and I'm happier than I have been I years or possibly ever and I love the world and have realized that we all are as amazing as him if we just let ourselves be it!"

#TWALWD

[lexstar29.livejournal.com]

I agree so much with this, it's perfectly put. Thanks so much for linking to the post.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

It made me happy.

...I am going back to read it now to reclaim my zen.

[lizziebethlj.livejournal.com]

I cannot stand Twighlight, but I totally love the fandom. Because I love fandoms in general, but also because I remember being fourteen and sleeping overnight in a parking lot with two of my best friends to buy tickets to NKOTB. And that same year, doing the exact same thing for Les Miserables when they finally toured in LA. And rearranging my college classes so my friends and I could watch General Hospital together every day. And Battlestar watching parties with my friends...last year. And talking to you obsessively about what I was going to wear to Glambert. And getting excited this morning because an author I like replied to my tweet with a "Ha!" (I immediately fanned myself, because omg he thought I was funny!)

Long live all unironic love.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Because I love fandoms in general, but also because I remember being fourteen and sleeping overnight in a parking lot with two of my best friends to buy tickets to NKOTB. And that same year, doing the exact same thing for Les Miserables when they finally toured in LA. And rearranging my college classes so my friends and I could watch General Hospital together every day.

In college we had Friends watching parties. I wasn't into it, but I remember the signup sheets. Though I think I was part of a Bold and the Beautiful group for a while. *tries to remember*

[omnipresentdmat.livejournal.com]

That linked entry actually got me kind of teary. Twilight's not my thing and it obviously has its problematic points, but the fans put up with so much shit that it's gone far past ridiculous. I love that these girls are able to have a fannish experience that means so much to them. There's almost nothing as awesome as being with a group of people who love the same things as you do and are willing to be geeky and enthusiastic with you.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*grins* It is the reason i love cons like unbelievably.

[omglawdork.livejournal.com]

I love that. I have a similar quote from Sars (of TWoP, though this was from her personal website (http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/dork-the-other-white-meat/)) on my LJ profile:

...[F]or me, it comes down to the fact that dorkiness, or nerdiness, or whatever term you want to use, isn't a trend. Calling it a state of mind instead seems rather overly grand, but I think it's possible to dork out about anything -- even if it's something "cool" like Italian film or Kate Spade -- because it's that idea of looking to that thing, that signifier, to let you belong because that thing belongs to you, horses, baseball, Broadway, Harry Potter, Risk, loving it as though it will love you back, without apologizing for it or winking at anyone who might be watching you. This is what makes Max Fischer a great character -- that the movie he's in is like, "Look what you can accomplish if you don't care who knows how much it means to you." (emphasis mine)

I just love it. Everyone dorks out about something - and you should never, ever let anyone judge you for what you love. At least you love something, and as thefourthvine says, anyone that laughs at it derisively can go fuck themselves.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love that quote. Yes, this.

[stripedpetunia.livejournal.com]

I laughed at this: "I guess there is no Team Bella? Or is that not how that works?"

Because yes, exactly. I think Team Bella would have her going for a healthier choice in significant other. Maybe I'm on Team Bella.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I saw Team Bella shirts--somewhere. *blank*

Though I am more partial to the shirts with the long, involved, purple quotes from the books m'self. In fancy cursive no less.

[naughtyoldlady.livejournal.com]

For making me aware of that post, I love you. That is all.

I understand porntestpilot's point

[trienne-hovus.livejournal.com]

... perhaps she could have made it less starkly, but I do see her point.

Pop culture *does* seem to be offering more girls who are defined by their romantic attachments and less by self-confidence, competence, and independence. Bella is the poster child for this, and I can understand why people find that... problematic. I'm not sure what to make of it myself, since the fans just seem to be enjoying the OTT romance *without* necessarily internalizing Bella's moody mopey co-dependence.

And it's not just that Bella is a bad role model; it's that she doesn't have much competition for the position.

Up to a couple years ago, valiant and powerful women were all over the place. There was Starbuck and Six and Laura Roslin; there was Zoe from Firefly, the metas from Birds of Prey, and practically every female on BtVS and Angel; Ivanova and Delenn from B5, Kira and Rho from DS9 and Janeway on Voyager.

What happened?

Where are today's female heroes? Where are the women who take control of their own destiny; who are fearless and adventurous and heroic? Are they no longer interesting? no longer relevant?

I'm not hating on Twilight. I'm just saddened that Twilight seems to be all there *is*.

Re: I understand porntestpilot's point

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping by point you don't mean "guys won't respect you if you don't like the right things" et al? This is drifting toward short skirt territory.

Up to a couple years ago, valiant and powerful women were all over the place. There was Starbuck and Six and Laura Roslin; there was Zoe from Firefly, the metas from Birds of Prey, and practically every female on BtVS and Angel; Ivanova and Delenn from B5, Kira and Rho from DS9 and Janeway on Voyager.

Babylon 5 - ended in 1998
Battlestar Galactica - ended in 2009
Firefly - 2002, 2005
Buffy/Angel - 2003, 2004
DS9 - 1999
Voyager - 2001

That's a fairly spread out group with overlap between them. You left out first season Veronica Mars, off the top of my head, the women of Gilmore Girls (some), True Blood's Tara Thornton...

Where are today's female heroes? Where are the women who take control of their own destiny; who are fearless and adventurous and heroic? Are they no longer interesting? no longer relevant?

...I have no idea how you assume that one year since Starbuck went off the air that this is the end of strong women on television. I mean, wishing there were some on TV, yes, waiting for another good show with a strong female character, yes, but--I'm not quite ready to lower the flag to half-mast.

I'm not hating on Twilight. I'm just saddened that Twilight seems to be all there *is*.

Well, you sort of are, otherwise I have no idea what part of porntestpilot's rant against Twilight and apparently Stephanie Brown and Sookie you're agreeing with. I just don't see what that particularly has to do with people being openly fannish, tbh.

[shelby-tiger07.livejournal.com]

This post made me happy. :)

[clairshadows.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the signal boost, that was beautifully said. Not a huge fan of Twilight though I do really like the idea of a Mary Sue (John sue?) that eats you. Anyway, it's always nice to see people happy and excited.