dune as interpreted by david lynch

Having watched the first forty minutes of Dune, as interpreted by David Lynch, I apparently forgot--and by that I mean, I obviously bleached my own brain--that first time we meet the Baron and Feyd-Rautha and Rabbon.

That was just...what the fuck did I just watch?



There is nothing about that scene that is not overdramatic and ridiculous in primary colors and oranges and it should not work--and it still utterly freaks me out.

Here we have two strangely (mutilated?) slaves, both of whom I think by the look are deaf and IDEK what is up the woman's eyes and I don't want to look again. Teh Baron is beign worked over by his doctors when Pityr of the Eyebrows comes in, delivers the Atreides DIAF message, and then the Rock Music Entrance of Feyd-Rautha of the Hotness and Rabban of the Cannot Be More Gross while Pityr explains the plan in short, easily understood words which, I'll be honest, even if it's for the audience, Rabban's faint look of incomprehension kind of makes it more workable than it should be.

Then Rabban kills something to drink it's blood. Lovely.

The doctor whispers sweet nothings about how beautiful the Barons' diseases are--my God what the hell is this--and the Baron's smiling all aww, of course--Christ, shoot me now--and in the midst of all this ridiculousness the Baron's expression just changes as a slave in what appears to be plastic wrap comes in to arrange bright purple tulips and hope hsi death is fast.

Then there is floating and cackling and syrup and wait. Let me repeat.

The baron floating around cackling is ridiculous; the doctor murmuring sweet nothings about the Baron's diseases being beautiful is ridiculous; the--completely inexplicable rain of purple syrup from the ceiling for no particular reason over the Baron while he cackles--what the fuck was that?--is ridiculous.

The Baron's sudden, sharp focus when the slave comes in, the way he loses his train of thought, is the first time I got uneasy--it didn't fit. Then the crazy-float and teh pronouncements of dire evil to his enemies and the purple syrup thing and I forgot completely about the slave arranging the purple tulips. Then the Baron, who in fact did not forget, achieves landing and heads for the slave, pulls the plug in the guys' chest that apparently goes straight to an artery and rapes him (barely off-screen, barely) over the purple tulips as he bleeds out while everyone watches in various stages of Do Not Care, I Am Deaf and Maybe Blind (Literally), Tolerant Amusement, Slight Jealousy (YOU SICK FUCK), Barely Notice, Sheer Enjoyment, and Really Fucking Turned On (FEYD WTF THAT LOOK), because this is normal. And it's all done to some seriously beyond words unsettling Rock Opera By Way of Pipe Organs.

And Feyd's grin afterward not helping.



For sheer visuals, this movie is gorgeous. The space ships, the court, the vastness of space, the utterly uncanny-divide Guild Navigators, the fact of a militarized empire where even a Duke and his son wear military uniforms that aren't as ceremonial as they are functional in a universe where everyone is a soldier.

You know, I forgot that the movie's ridiculousness is only something I really feel when I'm not watching; when I'm watching, it's amazing.

Okay, Yueh just betrayed House Atreides. Fucker. REMEMBER THE TOOTH.

...and watching someone pull out someone's tooth continues to freak me out too.

Oh, explosions. Excuse me. They are blowing up shit and this I do not miss.

Comments

[nianeyna]

I tried to watch that movie once. I was like, ten. It did not go well. And then a few years later I tried to read the book, thinking, hey the book is usually better, right? Well, better in the sense of not scarring me for life, but otherwise no. No, it was not. I mean, that was like seven years ago now, so all I really remember is the sense of massive confusion, and a whole bunch of people telling me that "if you'd just read past the first 150 pages, that's when it gets awesome!" THERE ARE OTHER THINGS I CAN READ, I AM NOT WADING THROUGH 150 PAGES OF WTF TO GET TO THIS SUPPOSED AWESOME.

erm. Sorry. I HAVE A LOT OF FEELINGS ABOUT DUNE, OKAY. XD

[seperis]

If there's any comparison that can be made, it's like reading LOTR for the first time; you really have to want it, you really have to be determined to get through it, and you have to cling to both until it clicks. It does get awesome, but the bigger awesome comes in first re-read--that's when it was obsession-level for me, because then the boring stuff is actually an entirely different story.

It's hard to explain but--yeah, it's not something you can force through. So I see why you couldn't get farther.

[lillian13]

IMHO, if you took the two Dune movies/series and put them in a blender, you would probably come up with a really great Dune movie.

But I'm really picky. I've probably read Dune 20 or 30 times--it was one of my go-to books in high school and college. It was the first "grown up" SF book I really loved.

I read the sequels and wasn't too impressed. By the time God-Emperor of Dune showed up, I got 40 or so pages into it and threw it away.( It was a hardcover and I threw it away.)

[seperis]

I did them all at a young age (12-13) in a few months, from Dune to Chapterhouse. God Emperor is--I do'nt even know, but Heretics and Chapterhouse are basically Bene Gesserit Central.

I read God Emperor for the love story in it now.

[scy]

Oh yes, that is one VERY DISTURBING SCENE. Ever wonder about House Harkonen? GO TO THAT SCENE. IT IS ALL THERE.

[seperis]

THIS.

[ellie]

They butchered the books, which I am fond of btw. I watched once long ago and have done my best to wipe it from my memory with mix results.

[seperis]

Yes, but I was surprised how much they got right, too. There's no possible way to seriously translate Frank's socio-political-religious thing very well, though admittedly, I'd love to see someone tackle the reversal of the colonial aspect of Paul going to the Fremen. On one hand, it's the Great Savior, but on the other, man, they used him like whoa.

I keep going back to marvel the moment Paul knows he's theirs and they're not his.

The movie, weird, but I didn't realize how much Lynch tried to get right.

[juliekarasik]

There's a good "making of" book floating around... possibly out of print now. They tried really really hard to do good. Which is possibly the best thing you can say about it. I think it was either Dean Stockwell or Patrick Stewart that commented once that it was like too many cooks killing the soup.

[everbright]

OKAY, SO I AM GLAD I NEVER WATCHED THAT MOVIE, AND NOW I NEVER WILL.

THANK YOU FOR THE WARNING, SEPERIS.

[applekid]

that movie is one of my absolute favorites, i could drown in the scenery and costuming. the art direction is some of the best i've ever seen.

also, the score is cheesy in execution yet remarkably wonderful in composition. brian eno's track ('prophecy theme') is beautiful and minimalist and ages wonderfully.

[seperis]

YES. The movie in pieces is like, wtf, but watching it all together with that music? So very not ridiculous.

[juliekarasik]

The music is what MADE IT. I had a bootleg copy in high school that I just wore to pieces playing over and over again. (As you do, when one is 15.)

[molly_o]

Y'know it's funny, my recollection of that scene (which I might not have seen since I was 17) is that Feyd Rautha looks on with disgust and then quickly switches his expression to a grin when he realizes the baron needs to think he approves.

It's just possible my GINORMOUS crush on Sting affected my perception.

[seperis]

I didn't even remember, so it completely threw me off. The entire casual brutality of it without even beign super-explicit was just--and in all those goddamn bright, happy primary colors.

[laurajv]

Feyd is creepier in the book, I think, because he's basically "Paul Atreides, raised by Harkonnen animals" (and Hasimir Fenring is "Paul Atreides, only rather more controlled by the Bene Gesserit"). In the movie he's just Here Is The Attractive Evil Badass, made all the prettier by the Baron and Beast Rabban.

[seperis]

He was definitely more complex in the book, but he never hit creepy for me so much as entitled, arrogant, vainglorious, and impulsive. He didn't scare me like the Baron did or like Paul did; not that he wasn't extremely intelligent, or that he wasn't just as pleasure-seeking as his uncle, but he lacked--an internal immortality. Like, no matter how I try, I can't see him being as successful or terrifying as the Baron, even though he's not (I think) as sadistic by nature.

I mean, I hate to say the Baron had more disclipline but I think he did; a big thing for me is the Baron telling Feyd to slaughter all the women in the slave quarters as punishment for Feyd. In that family, they kill slaves constantly for sheer fun; why would that be a punishment? It can't be killing people, or having some streak of respect for their humanity, so it has to be the sheer inconvenience of it, the time it takes to do it, the irritation of it, the having to go get more of them and train/whatever them up to however he wants them. It's not even important like councilors or troops or household servants (for whatever value they have); it's the pleasure quarters, just sex.

I mean, that's a damning summation of Feyd's character when the Baron knows the greatest punishment is inconvenience. I can see the argument that Feyd could be Paul under the Harkonnens, but the Baron raised him and trained him and that kind of training flaw isn't something I see him allowing to happen; it had to be an inherent characteristic they weren't able to erase. Sadism, violence, self-serving, vicious, self-preservation, yes, but there's something missing that makes Feyd maybe not as evil, per se, but never in danger of eclipsing his uncle.

[laurajv]

Hm. See, I'll have to go re-read, but the killing the slaves thing was partially because Feyd was too attached to one of the slave women, wasn't it? Besides having installed his puppet as slave-master. The Harkonnens play games, and it's -- the game with Feyd was, when you are good enough to kill me, you can succeed me, and not before, and for me, the *way* Feyd played that game was what I found creepy: he could play both politics and poison (the bit with the clean and poisoned blades in the slave arena, brrr). Unlike his uncle, he could convince people to follow him, even to love him, which I think was probably a gift from his bloodline. (He was supposed to marry an Atreides daughter; the BG are ruthless but not stupid and wouldn't risk a BG in the Atreides line with someone uncontrollable or truly evil, I think -- but someone more complex trained up to evil I find way scarier than someone just plain evil, because they tend to, hm, put more thought into it.)

[seperis]

The BG could have risked a trained daughter, though if they put her through the Agony to up her chances of survival first; all they really needed, in the end, was the offspring of the daughter and Feyd. Politics being what it was, if Feyd went too far Baron-wise, they didn't need the marriage for their purposes as much as the bloodline; politics would be one protection for the Atreides woman, as well as the fact the next Empress was a Bene Gesserit in the altered timeline as promised by Shaddam.

Also, Feyd actually liked sex with women, so it wasn't the kind of problem the Baron was to them; I'm sure they would have married someone to the Baron if his sexuality had made it even possible, but it's fairly clear his Kinsey was fairly high. The fact he didn't even bother with any kind of wife-figure or concubine is pretty indicative of his preferences, and I just don't see the Landsraad avoiding offering him a marriagable daughter just because he was evil.

The thing I wonder about is how many people not Atreides knew or cared the Baron was evil, or if he even registered when he confined himself to torturing slaves. It's fairly awful conditions, but it's not like his behavior was historically all that unusual for nobility anyway. In the book, the Baron was irritated that Pitir was going to have to watch Leto being a prisoner and tortured because Pitir wasn't royalty or nobility himself, and from context, part of the reason he didn't keep Paul for himself was a.) his Bene Gesserit training and b.) his rank.

Considering Irulan was the subject of assassination attempts by her father by her own words, teh Baron wasn't all that terrible; it does however, highlight how unusual Leto was and being called 'the Just' was a much bigger thing that it seems. And also why the Emperor was so afraid of him and his people.

[laurajv]

The BG certainly didn't need anyone married to Feyd for the bloodlines, but they may have needed it politically; it's unclear. They certainly worked to preserve the bloodline as much as they could, via Margo Fenring (side note: what, exactly, does "genetic-eunuch" mean as a description of Hasimir Fenring? I assume he's infertile, and he doesn't appear to have sexual jealousy issues; is he infertile, lacking in testicles, unable to have PIV sex? just what the hell were you doing there, Frank Herbert?)

[seperis]

*winces* Brian Herbert--and I do not consider him canon at all except in specific parts that support Franks' original--clarified that he was a genetic eunuch in that he couldn't father children.

My own original thought was that his genetic line was flawed, but that may be the reason why; his genes were really close to Kwisatz, but the flaw was so bad it was not only impossible for him to be one, but also made it impossible to father children, or he would have been their number one to father the real thing. Or possibly, considering, the flaw in his genetics was so bad it would lead to birth defects, which meant he was sterilized young to avoid say, a crazy KH or something. He married a Bene Gesserit, and since there was no genetic reason for them to get him, he had to be functional in some way or he wouldn't bother with a wife.

(Brian--and again wince wince wince--had it a love match with the Emperor's wife's friend, and while useful politically, it wasn't the reason Margo went for him; she liked his ruthlessness and oddly enough--and I say this with a very weird feeling--his internal sense of honor (if you read Brian's prequel series, it's--there. It's complex and fucked up, but compared to Shaddam, Fenrig is not nearly as awful as he is a weapon in Shaddamn's arsenal). For a Herbert book of any kind, Margo and Fenrig are actually rather sweet and don't end in blood and disaster.)

To be fair, he wasn't thrilled Margo was taking Feyd to bed either, and their relationship in Frank's novels, to me, had the earmarks of a love match as well as a Bene Gesserit political match, so--it's one of the only relationships in the books that isn't seriously fucked up, so I kind of cling to it. Jessica and Leto were the other one, with Paul and Chani around that level; beyond them, it's incest, doom, or the Idahos being terrible at picking life partners. Just terrible.

[juliekarasik]

I don't think the baron's Kinsey scale was red-lined until after Helen Mohiam. (He was Jessica's genetic father, Helen was her genetic mother.)

Note: I consider the Encyclopedia of Dune to be cannon and the Brian Herbert novels... rather not, so YMMV on this one.

[seperis]

BTW, do I love you for this discussion? Yes. Herbert's feudal model is almost-right and also completely not quite familiar in really interesting ways, I assume due to the Butlerian Jihad. It's really a surprise to realize how much decentralization there is in the Empire, and how the Empire only exists as a Mexican standoff, of a kind, between the Emperor and the Landsraad, with the Guild, CHOAM, and the Bene Gesserit more or less holding equal power themselves to any Great House. Paul's ascension lead to a hard recentralization by tipping the balance to the Emperor completely which Leto II consolidated, but it took me a while to realize that was a lot of the reason the new Empire was such an issue. He forced rule by economic monopoly and the jihad's power (and when you look at the jihad as less "way to get Paul on the throne" and more as "generations of pent-up revenge waiting for someone to show up to give the Fremen some decent transport ships, whoo, fun).

[out_there]

My main memories of that film are how much the Baron freaked me out (CREEPY, in a way that deserves capslock), that the lighting was primary coloured and kind of awesome in an overblown way, adn that the final battle for thge netire planet looked like it only involved about fifty people in total.

I haven't seen it in at least a decade, though, so any of those impressions could be wrong.

Some day, I have to work throug the books in order and read them all. I never did that.

[seperis]

Teh books are good, don't get me wrong, but theyr'e like LOTR in that you really hve to want to read them to get through them, and then they're amazing. But--you really hae to want it. it's one of the reasons I put of LOTR; Dune taught me that some epics you have to be not just ready to read, but willing to change how you read adn what you like to read to read them. They're completely worth it, but they can turn you off if you try to do it without the need to get through them.

Dune's best after the first novel is Heretics and Chapterhouse; they're honestly worth the first four no matter how irritating they are. He took all the worldbuiilding he did in the first four and exploded it; you have to have the first four for that context, but once you have it, they're just plain amazing. And very, very readable.

[juliekarasik]

That's neat. Heretics and Chapterhouse were where I hit the wall. Got though them on sheer bloody minded determination, but didn't really enjoy or get much out of it, which is funny seeing as worldbuilding is usually one of my bulletproof kinks. Then again, I was 15, so... yeah.

(My faves have always been Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, full stop)

[astolat]

The only way to survive is to fast forward through ALL the Harkonnen moments. D:

[seperis]

Why in the name of God are all their scenes this crystal-clear primary-colors? It's all happy-death-ickiness! And it disarmed me every time, even knowing what it means when the colors go bright and cheerful.

Yes. Just. Fast forward, dear God.

[spike21.livejournal.com]

Dune was a touchstone book of mine from the ages of 15 to 20 (not that I don't still have deep feelings for it, but in those days I reread it almost compulsively) I also had a love/hate relationship with the movie. I agree that it is both gorgeous and disturbing -- pretty much hallmarks of the David Lynch Experience. A friend at the time pretty nearly ruined it forever by pointing out that the Guild Navigators looked an awful lot like sentient clitorises. I'm enjoying rewatching vicariously here. *g*

[feanna.livejournal.com]

I have never watched that movie in it's entirety, but apart from that I like to use some of the visuals (also from the other Dune movies) for (pre-)pre-reformation Vulcan in my head. Because it's kind of similar (I have IDEAS!) with the aristocracy/royalty setup and the desert and the high tech (and someone even had some theories about early Vulcan using their high level telepaths for space travel (related to why Romulans lost their telepathy, their telepaths died in space) and so on.

[devilishdestiny.livejournal.com]

there is actually an eight or twelve hour version of that movie which is why it seems to go at breakneck speed when you are watching it.

[jaymalea]

Are you referring to the mini-series adaptation directed by John Harrison or an extended version of David Lynch's movie?

[devilishdestiny.livejournal.com]

an extended version of David Lynch's movie.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Just ordered it from Amazon, extended edition.

[keykook16.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes that is a disturbing scene and Sting does not help, it got to the point where I cannot listen to the accompanying music on the soundtrack. (Well, the music's freaky too there, so.)

But the movie - hell yeah. It is awesome and ridiculous and thus more awesome. Long live the fighters!

[leld.livejournal.com]

I must have been about 10 when I first saw that movie, I don't know how because my parents where usually better at monitoring what I was watching. My tiny little brain was completely blown and warped.

[abuseofreason.livejournal.com]

I don't even know how old I was the first time I saw that movie, I adore Dune and that's my preferred adaptation (though I've never seen the extended version), but every time I see that scene, I just cannot hold back a shudder. It's totally cartoonish and overblown, but somehow, still unspeakably creepy.