so yes. this is going well

Bailout Failed (Again) - the thing is, I just stare at this and think, wow. Wow, wow, wow.

Okay. Officially. For you who might know this stuff. How screwed are we? On a scale from gen to lubeless multi-character hentai?

I'm getting more coffee.

Comments

[ladyholder.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I don't think that this is a plain cup of coffee type of situation. I think it needs some Baileys and Amaretto. Because if we are going to be screwed this hard, we might as well get drunk for it first.

I hate this whole protracted melt down thing we have going.

:: Sips coffee ::

~L

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Baileys would be good here.

*eyes market*

[loligo.livejournal.com]

Well, I am not in any way an economist, but here's one finance blog claiming that today's events were not that big a deal (http://www.clusterstock.com/2008/9/market-to-feds-fine-block-bailout-it-won-t-work-anyway).

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the link! *bounces*

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

I don't even know anymore. I'm home early from work with a migraine; I caught this news just before I left work, which didn't help things any. I'm going to go crash and hope that when I wake up someone has beaten some sense into Congress.

In the meantime, have a cute puppy icon.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Yes, this.

Also, OMG PUPPY ADORABLE!

[trobadora]

My head hurts.

We need some big fannish cheering-up thing right about now, I think.

[lydiabell.livejournal.com]

Bailout Challenge! (http://lydiabell.livejournal.com/54557.html)

[thisisbone.livejournal.com]

rageprufrock offered up her expertise to answer questions. She's been in the thick of it and has a good, calm, smart head on her shoulders. I recommend asking her!

I'm not taking money out of the bank to stick under my mattress, but I am rethinking a couple of upcoming large, optional expenses, and I'm keeping a list of things I could do without if we need to tighten our belts. The money I pay Time Warner for digital cable & internet, though, is NOT on that chart. ;)

[ladyholder.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I am with you on the last point. The internet is not a luxury. It is a necessity.

~L

[yarnaddict.livejournal.com]

Lubeless, multi-character tentacled furry hentai.

Wait, um... okay, so maybe that's not actually /worse/...

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*dies*

[http://users.livejournal.com/taltos_/]

It depends really on where you are in your life as to how much it's going to affect you personally, and that's what most of us are concerned with obviously.

If you can make all of your credit payments, whether they be a mortgage or credit cards etc, you're golden as long as your job doesn't fall through.

If you're debt free, I want your secret.

Honestly the people who will be hurt most by this are those people who were barely scraping by to begin with, they will continue to suffer, even if they pass this bill, it won't trickle down immediately.

However, all creditors have the option to call due, at any time for any reason, all or any portion that they deem fit, of the credit they extended to a borrower.

In other words, if you have a car loan, they can send you a letter that says you have 60 days to pay such and such amount or we come take your car. That is, of course, the extreme case of a total financial collapse. Total collapse could happen, it's a very real possibility, but I honestly think it will be resolved before then.

Does that make any sense? I was in the loan (mortgage, commercial and consumer) dept. of a bank once upon a time. All those rules stick with you, it's all in the fine print that none of us read and should.

[ladyholder.livejournal.com]

Holy crap! Well I know what my new goal is. To not have as little debt as possible

Geez!

~L

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Oh man. Thankfully, I have neither car payment nor mortgage. *breathes* I was supposed to get a car last year and put it off. It pleases me now that I do not.

[chopchica.livejournal.com]

I'm avoiding all of this so I won't cry, and reading Moonlight Wank: Part Two on FW.

You know, all of those people there who scoffed at $11k last time, I wonder if they still feel the same way now?

[quietus-x.livejournal.com]

There's a part two now? Score.

something to do right now

[shusu.livejournal.com]

minotaur pointed out a piece of BS in the form of the Orphan Works bill (http://minotaurs.livejournal.com/306609.html). Which is basically big companies scrambling to pillage our copyrights to cover their asses. I for one would like to retain future self-employment, and this needs action right now.

Re: something to do right now

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Dammit. It had to happen now.

[paper-legends.livejournal.com]

Here's my opinion about all this, but I am not an expert (on anything) by any means.

Economics (on national levels) goes through fairly predictable cycles based on the supply of resources and the length of wars, however; the longest republic (or democracy) lasted less than 400 years way back in antiquity, so, frankly? Another great depression (in which, this time, most citizens do not have "common sense" survival skills like sewing, gardening, soap-making, canning, and saving/reusing, etc.) is due, and it will be bad. Speaking of what, based on cycles, is due: another social revolution/counterculture movement, which, if the fundies get any more psycho, could lead to a state's rights/civil liberties "war" at home.

I doubt organized fighting on US soil would ever happen again (in our lifetimes), but, an economic meltdown and a huge division between ideologies leaves us very vulnerable to an outside takeover--be it with a new currency, debt holders, religious icons, etc. No one is going to invade America; it's much easier to sit back and watch us destroy ourselves, then come in as a savior, until we are, essentially, naturalized to the new culture.

I mean, all conflicts arise over possessions and a sense of entitlement (I'm entitled to this land/wealth/title/bride/legal right/respect/service, so I will fight you to get it.) Whoever controls the most resources controls the people who need them, and, thanks to spectacular mismanagement, at the very least, I don't think we will be the world's "superpower" for much longer, if we even still are...

But I don't panic (b/c that will just make it worse). This is history repeating itself, as far as I'm concerned, and, looking at the big picture, I feel like we've been cursed to live in interesting times. So long as people hold firmly to the core fabric of their ideal behaviors (ex: don't kill, don't steal, don't press the big red button), these hard times ahead very well might teach us to be better consumers and stewards of nature. Or will could all kill each other as we crawl all over our honor and ideals in the fight to eek out a mere survival until the planet goes boom.

With choices like enlightenment or extinction, I find it best not to even bother planning ahead... ~_^ Not to sound nonchalant, b/c, yes, devastating consequences seem eminent, but... You are never lost, b/c, wherever you go in the world, there you ARE. Poor or drowning in opulence, you are still YOU. No suffering or pleasure is ever permanent. Ages of darkness and enlightenment are bound to happen. And as long as education, exposure, and experience are part of everyday people's lives, we can think our way out of a box (like FDR's New Deal) and remember what we have in common (the enemy of my enemy is my friend), etc. etc. and, hopefully, hang onto our humanity until the big asteroid comes along and Bruce Willis can no longer save us...

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*thoughtful* That's really lovely. Thank you.

[tropes.livejournal.com]

It makes me nervous to work in retail.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

It's getting me nervous about my job and I'm government. They randomly crack down on the budget in good years.

*chews nails*

[cat-77.livejournal.com]

I'm beginning to wonder if this is all part of the bank I work for's secret plan to take over the world since we're not included in the bail outs (yet).

How screwed are we? On a scale from gen to lubeless multi-character hentai?

The most awesome comment I've seen about this whole mess to date. *g*

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Aww, thank you!

[shrewreader.livejournal.com]

See my LJ.

I heard at 4:45.

I had Scotch in the glass at 5:02.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*facepalm* Yeah, that's the feeling I was getting as well.

[issuegirls.livejournal.com]

I'm not American, but English stockbrokers say WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE.

Of course, that may be a *little* dramatic...

[fuzzycactus.livejournal.com]

This (http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/25/news/economy/colvin_economy.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008092510) article, written on the 25th is the most optimistic take on the crisis I've seen so far.

[ratcreature]

This all sucks so much.

And you know, in broader terms I'm still more worried about global warming and environmental collapse than the finances, because financial slumps are things that humans can manage and repair whereas we aren't good enough to do large-scale terraforming yet. And what good will money do if our ecosystem collapses? But this is just going to make this whole "growth, growth, growth, we need growth at all costs" brainwashing worse, because after a crash everyone wants an upcycle to recover so badly, only where is it going to come from? In the past it always more or less worked to expand and plunder even more natural resources to fuel growth, and we are still clinging to that, only now there's billions of people more and so much less resources to begin with. So this will just worsen the ecological disaster unless systemic change happens.

OTOH it's not like I wish the economy or even just the financial markets to collapse. Because for me and my family and people I know it would be awful. And it's like that for everyone. Everyone wants to get by right now and in the nearish future, and have themselves and their families be okay, but the decisions that may be rational for that (or at least known to have worked maybe in the past) are what's making everything so much worse even just five decades from now. I mean, am I really supposed to wish for more growth even knowing that the carbon emissions since 2000 have surpassed even the worst projections already? Obviously the thing to want would be a "different" growth somehow, or a different model, but nobody really knows for sure the details to make that a confident thing. Sure, small improvements (like "green" energy technology and such stuff), but not the more systemic parts that need to change.

And I think most people (myself definitely included) hate radical, insecure change on a gut level, especially if you can't control or predict how it might go, unless your immediate situation is completely frelled right now, whereas if the status quo is still manageable you cling to that, even if it kind of sucks, or try to make small changes, even while rationally you see clinging will make the future worse, rather than have huge uncertainty and risk what you still have. It the old saying of rather having a sparrow in your hand than a pigeon on the roof (actually I don't know whether that is an English saying too, but the meaning is obvious).

[firesprite1105.livejournal.com]

You know, if you want to quickly learn enough economics to understand our financial crisis, I recommend the PBS series "Commanding Heights: The Fight For The World Economy." You can get it on Netflix, and I wouldn't be surprised if the library had it.

The documentary covers the various financial systems of the 19th and 20th centuries and how those systems have worked or failed. It's the failures that are really scary, especially the more recent examples in Latin America. One of the strengths of the documentary is that they interview a lot of the main players in all of these economies, the dictators and presidents and their advisors, and also the world's top economists like Jeffrey Sachs and Milton Friedman.

That said, I've been forcing my roommate to watch it and ever since we got to the Poland and Bolivia economic collapses last night, she's been wandering around panicked and talking about buying emergency food supplies and a generator. That said, I can't say I disagree with her since the similarities between certain economic collapses and our current crisis are rather appalling. It's been a few years since I watched Commanding Heights, and I have to say that it's far, FAR scarier to watch it now and see our country making the same freakin' mistakes that you see in the documentary, especially when you see the kinds of scarcity and chaos that result.