seperis | i'm avoiding my actual work

A few days ago, whilst reading

poisontaster's meta, Why Is There Not More Shunning, I hit a comment that I'm still thinking about. And not even due to Care Bear trauma for distraction.

vee_fic wrote here (partial quote):

On the other hand, I tend to agree with cryptoxin describing the JournalFen cluster of comms as the "rogue judiciary" -- especially now that UnfunnyBusiness is up. You show up on F_W, it's because you acted wanky; you may know what is silly behavior by what shows up on F_W. You show up on UFB, it's because you acted in a way that makes rage; you may know the borders of fandom's anger by reading that comm. The existence of the two places -- and the distinction between them -- are educations in the (changing) parameters of acceptable behavior within fandom.

One, I'd like to find the post that

cryptoxin discusses this in, because wow, that is kind of the nutshell of what I haven't been able to articulate.

I kinda agree. I know Unfunny Business isn't one of the direct wank offspring as stated: more the unacknowledged bastard hate child of OTF by way of Deep Thoughts during a drunken one night stand, but it *does* have the same feeling. In retrospect, I'm also surprised it didn't pop up a lot sooner; the borderlands between snark at pretentious and anger at stupidity can be narrow and crossed easily most of the time, and I think a lot of people go both ways when we get hit with something and we'd like to indulge both. Miss Scribe (bad_penny comm) was funny as hell, but it was also, for those intimately involved, hideously painful either in present or in the past.

Examples: OSBP was enraging and also hilarious by turns depending on what time of day it was, because you couldn't help staring at the arguments and wondering if some of them really were aware what they were saying*. The SPN stealth-comm takeover arrangements leading back to a history of comm-coups in SPN. SVA Vs JKR in all it's weird glory.

Usually, I can get the general tenor how fandom is thinking if I hit Fandom Wank, UFB, Wank Report, and MetaFandom by turns and not just on the fandom-eating issues. Sure, every once in a while, like OSBP, something hits us out of nowhere, but also, I'm not really sure it does. I'd bet money if you traced metafandom over six months, you could work out a fairly good predictive model for blow up probability. Whether it goes all-fandom wide or not is trickier**.

It becomes trickier when I think of dogpile versus shun and why we wince when we see it or do it, and I'm not entirely sure it's Cult of the Nice or Geek Fallacy or even World of Women that's the base theory behind it. I think it's the same reason Miss Scribe lasted so long, why some fanpeople can get away with a *lot* of shitty behavior, and why most of us won't and don't even consider doing a reveal of someone we know who screwed us over outside filter and likely do it only over AIM to loyal parties only. Sometimes, I think no one wants to start a war and find it turned on them. It's a lot safer to wait for critical mass to get hit and have a comm pick it up.

Pretty sure I had a point here. When you find it, that is totally what this entry was about. Not rambling at all.

* - for the rest of my life, I will never understand how the OP could talk about the shy, insecure women who tentatively asked for breast-enpowerment through groping and not realize how fucking creepy that was. I don't think any phrase ever skeeved me as badly as that one in how it was both worded and that it existed at all. And there is no way that could have been worded by anyone that it wouldn't have set off every alarm I have installed, both pre-installed and society-created models.

** - I've often wondered if the explosion in OSBP is related to the Mary Jane debacle that some of us walked out of feeling vaguely shell-shocked and nauseated by turns. At least for me, seeing the same reworded statement in defense of the former that were posted in the latter under anonymous (and those charming flames, fun) was enlightening. I don't often go from zero to DIAF that fast.

I think your point is, perhaps, fandom is getting better at seeing where some of the lines are, and how not to conflate them?

I agree with the point about unfunnybusiness. There are plenty of people I want to point at and mock, but it's not really a fandom_wank kind of mocking, where I am laughing at the same time. It's more like dear god, how do you continue to breathe with your rampant stupidity kind of mocking. The Rodney McKay School of Horror, maybe.

and I'm not entirely sure it's Cult of the Nice or Geek Fallacy or even World of Women that's the base theory behind it

I think it is. I think women especially are programmed to be mediators, to not delight in the pain of others since we're so "empahtic" or whatever. And to a degree, I agree. I like playing the mediator. It assuages my ego, and there have been times when it's been successful. But the whole dog-piling-is-bad thing really pinged my Cult of Nice buttons because it has the potential to trivialize and sweep under the rug something that really shouldn't be. It's not always used that way, but I think if more people adopt that dog-piling is bad, then it can be. And, in fact, will be.

Oh, Buffyfandom. Your scars are as deep as your joys.

See! I am just that brilliant with my points.

I think it is. I think women especially are programmed to be mediators, to not delight in the pain of others since we're so "empahtic" or whatever. And to a degree, I agree. I like playing the mediator. It assuages my ego, and there have been times when it's been successful. But the whole dog-piling-is-bad thing really pinged my Cult of Nice buttons because it has the potential to trivialize and sweep under the rug something that really shouldn't be. It's not always used that way, but I think if more people adopt that dog-piling is bad, then it can be. And, in fact, will be.

Yeah. But I do think at least a part of our general reaction is very few people want to be hit with backlash or a counterattack, and fandom in general is pretty comfortable fighting a war on both sides. So if you start? There's a better than average chance you will be under attack in short order. And the bigger the issue, the higher the likelihood.

But I do think at least a part of our general reaction is very few people want to be hit with backlash or a counterattack

Hmmm. While I definitely agree with that statement, I am not sure it really fits with the whole dog-piling issue? Because there is a difference with not wanting to start something -- and in that, I absolutely agree; there's a reason why certain people went longer than two years without being exposed as the cancers they are -- that isn't really related to dog-piling, to me. I've always thought of it as what happens after, when everyone links and comments and generally gets our rage on. And it is rare for us to quite our outrage, because we all bitch to each other, whether in LJ or outside of it. So... yes, definitely, sometimes there is a delay as people mull over whether we start something or not -- I mean, the latest bullshit took more than a month to hit the right people -- but also no, because that isn't dog-piling. It might lead to it, but I'd consider it the opening salvo. A single dog, if you will :)

In a tangential and not primary way, though, I think it does. Most of us don't go zero to death in five seconds. There's usually (not always, but usually) a reason that a *lot* of people explode at once, especially in the diversity of Fandom itself. If the person has been biting their tongue against a, b, c, for like, a year, and d occurs and someone else remarks negatively, it's a *lot* easier to run *with* them to yell no than feel like you are doing it on your own.

I mean, that's one of the reasons I like the fannish dogpile, even though I twitch; it acts as an object lesson as well as a release for fen.

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