(no subject)

Now something a little more direct:

6.) If your character is doing something wildly out of canon characterizations, you'd better sure as hell give a good reason. And no, fanon is not a substitute.

Okay, I lied. I hate to say this, but I'm fannish enough to admit, fanon can be a substitute, assuming your audience has read and accepted the fanon story that created it in enough numbers to pull it off. That is not an automatic drop in the jenn-box of darkness here. We really need a word for widely accepted fanon, btw. But there's got to be a point a. And it has to go to point b. And no, you cannot skip c or d or e to get to the really cool f. Yes, there are exceptions to this. But if Rodney is suddenly to become the best military strategist since Julius Caesar, it better either be AU or you send his ass to school for another few years. Genius does not automatically equal perfect at everything he tries the first time. It just means that, if he's just that universally gifted, he has the capacity to learn it. And frankly, I want proof he even would care to learn.

7.) John is not a prostitute. John is the biggest flirt in the Pegasus Galaxy, and probably the biggest tease as well--which always brings me to images of him not putting out on dates and girls (and/or boys) getting bitter, but let's not go there. He glow sexed Chaya, he probably nailed the mindreader (come on. MINDREADER? I'd sleep with her! MIND. READER. That, my friends, would be some seriously fun sex. And six months with the creepy people meditating, which actually argues he was crazy by then) and the blonde chick--he said he didn't, I stick with that, since he doesn't seem the type to lie through his teeth. But. One girl in two years.

8.) Canonically, Rodney is an asshole. You really, really don't need to soften that. No, really. He does not cry into his pillow for all the pain he has caused otehrs. I'm pretty sure he remembers only about one percent of what he says to people on any given day. WE LIKE THAT ABOUT HIM. That is what makes him interesting. It is grating and annoying and so very very human and makes his dialogue so much fun. Conversely--he is not a completely sociopathic asshole. Please dial back the psychosis, because also, he has moments where he can be nice and he doesn't spend every second of his life looking for new and intersting ways to make people miserable. Yes, I am asking a great deal, you know, *balancing a character*. But hey, I have faith. Or I have hope.

9.) John is not dumber than a pail. I cant' believe I even have to have this one on teh list. But there you have it. He's really, really not. He didn't get to Major by sleeping his way through the chain of command (though man, what I wouldn't give to be his commanding officer if that were true), and you ever notice that his ideas on how to do things actually, you know, *work* sometimes? See GUP. Thank you. That is all.

10.) Oh. Hmm. If I read *one more* fic that has a major plot point of completely humiliating one character for perceived wrongs (Elizabeth for being a woman, John for hurting Rodney's feeling or possibly, uncanonically having been a jock and/or mean to the scientifically adept and/or geeks, Rodney for his dark evilness in calling John a whore, WHICH HE HAS NEVER ACTUALLY DONE, Teyla for--being a woman, I have no clue on that one, etc etc etc)--well, I mean, I can't do anything, but I will possibly need to start retaliatory fic, or perhaps, take up a thriving drug habit. Seriously. What is the thing for humiliation? Why?



Hmm. Lets see the next topic.

To suggest a topic, go here

Comments

[amireal.livejournal.com]

Pet peeve: Research. Nothing major. Just like-- understand your universe.

Otherwise, yes. Love your list.

*hugs it*

[kalikahuntress.livejournal.com]

I'm loving your list THIS much, it covers all the annoying things about fandom:)

[ltlj.livejournal.com]

On number 7, OH GOD YES. When I see the word "kirking" in a story summary, I want to throw the computer out the window. Where is this show where John has sex constantly? Why is it not on my TV? Why is it being withheld from me?

And OH GOD YES on all the other points, too.

[cereta.livejournal.com]

Where is this show where John has sex constantly? Why is it not on my TV? Why is it being withheld from me?

Well, I didn't want to tell you this, but, see, we put a scrambler on your cable box, and...

What?

[ltlj.livejournal.com]

I knew it!

[seperis.livejournal.com]

See, if he's nailing half the galaxy? I wnat to see this. I want to see this a *lot*. Cause this is the man we cannot get to take off his *jacket* half the time, and I get kind of excited when I see wrist, okay? So yeah. God, yeah.

[emrinalexander.livejournal.com]

The idea that John is stupid...

Let's say he went to the USAF Academy. Top half of the top 10% of high school grads, people, before the Air Force Academy will even LOOK at your records, let alone accept you. Only grants bachelors of science degrees in a broad range of subjects, most of them (not all, though, they do have some humanities tracks) in hard science and/or math and engineering. If Sheppard went there, he's smart. Period. And probably has the engineering degree to back it up.

If he went USAF ROTC through another college - same deal, really. He would've had to carry a high grade point average, take the tough courses and ALSO attend special officers training classes on the side.

Went in post grad? The USAF Officers Training School for those guys is just as tough, and more compressed timewise.

Frankly, I had three friends who had great grades and were smart and personable who, when they went to the Air Force recruiters office didn't score highly enough on the basic enlisted persons testing to get in. So, even if John enlisted and then went to Officers Training, he still has to be...smart. They don't take just anybody, they don't have to.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

To get promoted to Major, he would have to possess a post-graduate degree. So he's got a Master's in something (I'm fond of him having math degrees, myself, because I think it fits in with his easiest option approach to life - engineering and other hard sciences would have required lab work. Math is much more pen and paper).

[emrinalexander.livejournal.com]

I'd forgotten about that too - I think it's anything above Captain, that you need a Master's? I think his degree - at least the Master's - is math centered. Undergrad, I speculate he might've done engineering if he went through the Academy; math if he came in through ROTC. And despite the number of people I've seen scoffing at the MENSA eligibility thing - I think that's kind of silly to scoff, being eligible does mean a certain level of IQ, after all, whether you're "doing anything" with it or not.

I hope the show brings some of this out as the third season rolls forward; of all the main characters we really know the least about Sheppard.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

I'm fairly firm in my belief that John did *not* go to the Air Force Academy, although there are authors who can make me believe it in their story. Given his tendency to rebel against authority, and what the SciFi website says about his father being in the military, I just can't see John giving into any kind of pressure or expectation about the service schools. When he decided to join the military, he did it because it was his own decision, not something he was pressed into. I don't even think his desire to fly would overcome that.

[emrinalexander.livejournal.com]

I'm of the same opinion - I can see him going to college intending to be Completely Different, maybe getting sidetracked somehow, and then ending up in the Air Force. And that is one of the reasons why I'm so curious to see how (if) they fill out the rest of his backstory. If the character is the same age as the actor who plays him, then he's pretty much on career track for promotions, maybe even a little ahead of the game. Though, I have seen good arguments that John's rebellion against authority is something that might've surfaced after a few years in various war zones, but I don't know, I've seen stories that make me buy that and ones that don't.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

We know so little about his past! It's both frustrating and freeing, because there's a lot of room to extrapolate from what we observe on screen, but we don't have canon facts to back any of our suppositions up.

something that might've surfaced after a few years in various war zones, but I don't know, I've seen stories that make me buy that and ones that don't.

I agree that it really depends on the care the author uses in constructing their backstory. Some of them make me think, "Oh yes, it could have been this," while others make me shake my head no.

[reginagiraffe]

See, I can see him going the MechE route and getting to buid something that went really fast.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

That's very true. The lure of speed would overcome the distaste for effort *g*

[reginagiraffe]

He seems like the kind of guy who doesn't mind effort if it's *fun*. Or if the result of the effort nets him some fun.

[emrinalexander.livejournal.com]

He certainly seemed to know what he was doing when he was overseeing the re-fitting of the jumper to go rescue Rodney in Grace Under Pressure; I mean, I wouldn't have known what to tell all those guys to tear apart and weld and what not. Though I'm probably not a good example, I have trouble operating my electric can opener, but still - John was obviously the guy with the engineering plan to redo things, so...

[reginagiraffe]

That's exactly what I was thinking of (GUP). He's seems to have an engineer's mind. Putting stuff together and taking it apart. One might say almost... MacGyverish.

[emrinalexander.livejournal.com]

In that scene he reminded me so much of the mechanical engineers I've worked with on various big commercial construction projects *G*.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

That could also be a function of his time as a pilot. Especially a helicopter pilot. Those machines are incredibly complex and their pilots have to know everything about how they work. Even if John didn't get a degree in engineering, he'd have learned a lot on the job.

[serialkarma.livejournal.com]

Those machines are incredibly complex and their pilots have to know everything about how they work. Even if John didn't get a degree in engineering, he'd have learned a lot on the job.

This is also one of those things that makes me understand why John and Rodney would be *friends* and not just people who get along well enough to work together. They both like figuring out how and why things work. Rodney may be more interested on the *why* and knowledge for knowledge's sake, and John might be more interested in the *how* and *what he can do with it* later, but that's just like two sides of the same coin. I love how in GUP he seems not just driven to get Rodney and, uh, whatsisface back, but he's *excited* by getting to be the one to figure out HOW to do it.

[cetpar.livejournal.com]

To get promoted to Major, he would have to possess a post-graduate degree.

Hi. I don't believe that this is actually the case--if you mean that there is an absolute requirement for having an advanced degree in order to be promoted above Captain. I don't think there is anything in the Air Force officers promotion regulations that *require* an advanced degree for promotion to Major or even higher ranks. But I do agree that it is considered in the selection process, and that the chances of being promoted are higher if you do have a degree. I think it is also the case that the higher in rank you go, where there is more intense competition for fewer slots, the less likely you will be promoted without a post-grad degree.

Sorry to butt in on the thread, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

[akacat]

If he went USAF ROTC through another college - same deal, really.

Not necessarily. My first husband was AFROTC, his GPA hovered around 3.0. He dropped out after two semesters, but up until then they were promising he'd be an officer when he graduated.

Not that a 3.0 means a person is dumb, of course. Mine wasn't even that good. ;-)

[lydiabell.livejournal.com]

I've been kind of thinking about John's backstory lately, and I wonder ... what kind of opportunities are out there for civilians to fly "cool" planes as opposed to airliners, charters, etc.? If John wanted to fly experimental aircraft and such, would he need to go the Air Force route, or might he have had a chance to do so as a civilian pilot?

I'm wondering, since John doesn't really seem all that militarily-inclined in some ways, why he chose the Air Force. I wonder if it was just for the flying, or if there was something else. I have my theories, of course. :)

[out-there.livejournal.com]

Actually, I was talking to celli about this, about what John would be able to fly if he didn't do military training. The short answer was a personal charter business and very little else.

The big airlines hire ex-military pilots due to the quality of the flight training. Flying experimental aircraft -- for, say, a private engineering company -- would be much the same: he'd possibly, *possibly* be able to charm his way in with a private flying license, but most likely they'd want someone ex-military.

Hence, John joining the airforce is the cheapest way to become a pilot and would leave him with the most options if/when he left the military.

[lydiabell.livejournal.com]

I have an ex-boyfriend who used to fly for a big airline, and he was never in the military (he did graduate from a highly-regarded aviation program, though), so it can be done. I'm not in touch with him enough to ask about other options for civilian pilots, though. ;-) Thanks for the info!

[emrinalexander.livejournal.com]

I'm not military, but I've been reading and watching a LOT of stuff on the Military Channel *G*, since I got into Atlantis. My impression (which could be totally wrong!) is that to fly the really "hot" stuff, you have to be in the military and that the best place to be is the Air Force. Even the test pilots I've seen interviewed who were "civilians" at the time of their interviews, were retired military.

I'm wondering, since John doesn't really seem all that militarily-inclined in some ways, why he chose the Air Force. I wonder if it was just for the flying, or if there was something else. I have my theories, of course. :)

I'd love to know what your theories are *G*.

[lydiabell.livejournal.com]

See, I was really kind of hoping that John would have had good options as a civilian pilot, so that there would need to be some other explanation besides just flying for why he went into the AF. There's this fanon that John has a death wish or basically is just reckless and doesn't care about his own life, but I just see it as him being insanely protective of the people he's responsible for. It could be argued that this came about as a result of his having seen combat and having the "no one left behind" mentality drummed into him, but I picture him having always had this streak. He probably wanted to be a firefighter or a policeman when he was a little boy, before he got turned on to flying. :) He wants to be the one standing between his people and danger. This is in marked contrast to Rodney, by the way, in that Rodney really doesn't like being the one on the spot being called upon to save everyone's lives -- although he is getting better at handling it. I'm not saying that he doesn't take his responsibility seriously, because he absolutely does, but it doesn't come naturally to him to have people's lives depending on him. It really scared the hell out of him in earlier episodes.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

Oh god. Yes. The point about fanon, especially (although it's enough to turn on the waterworks if you're one of the three people who disagree with widely accepted fanon - such pain! I cannot tell you!). A lot of authors (even good authors) lose me because they skip from A to F without any of the necessary intermediate steps. Or, they decide to start out at G and move to M. The farther away something is from canon, the more I need to be led gently along the path, with coaxing and candy.

[John] didn't get to Major by sleeping his way through the chain of command

Or even to Lt. Colonel, I think.

My humiliation squick is so big that I cannot even go to the places you mention in number ten. Just no.

[emrinalexander.livejournal.com]

My humiliation squick is so big that I cannot even go to the places you mention in number ten. Just no.

I call that the "I'll get soap poisoning and THEN you'll be SORRY!" school of fanfic writing *G*.

I also have trouble with post-Trinity fics where The Entire Atlantis Contingent completely shun Rodney and treat him like a pariah, etc. I'm sorry, they're big boys, playing with dangerous equipment in a very dangerous place, going for big stakes. Chances are, something will go wrong at some point, and somebody will die. It happens. I can see Elizabeth taking issue with his attitude (though it should've been done in private, not where everybody in the gateroom could see and hear them) and I can certainly see John being pissed off. But the whole "We hate you go sit in the depths of Atlantis and rot," plotline of some fics isn't believable either.

[volari.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I didn't see that episode as being a "Rodney screwed up, which should be impossible since he's perfect, so let's hate him forever now." I saw Elizabeth's and John's reactions as slightly misdirected lashing out. Especially for John, since he has trust issues but did allow himself to trust Rodney. So I really hate when people drag it out in fics just for the sake of making Rodney miserable.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*twitch* And the more I read, the more sensitive I get to it, and--yeah. I just can't deal with it at all anymore. And part of me just wants to ask, what the *hell*? And the sane part of me reminds me that every ficster has a different perspective on the characters.

I just don't get the desire to humiliate one to glorify the other. It doesn't click.

[etben.livejournal.com]

but, see, now I'm wondering: what form would your 'retaliatory fic' take? would it be happy-cheerful-esteem-building-the-world-is-a-wonderful-place-fic? or humor, possibly involving the ovary-melting exploits of small-John? or porn? (any of these would be nice, and I have the fullest confidence in your ability to pull it off, but I'm casting my vote for hot sex as the number one weapon against humiliations. Just saying. Also, it's probably better for you than a drug habit, no matter how thriving.)

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I usually torture a character in some way. *winces* Don'nt worry, those never make the public sphere, except that one time that doesn't count, but--*twitches*.

[vileseagulls.livejournal.com]

Torture can be fun. *looks innocent*

[solvent90.livejournal.com]

Oh, number 8. Yes. I have trouble with that one. I always risk forgetting it when I try to write him - partly because I'm really bad at insults, can't really think of good Rodneyesque ones, but also because my default image of Rodney is as someone who tends to ignore people more than insult them. i.e. he will only insult you if you draw yourself to his attention, and not gratuitously. I don't know if that's a "softening" of the character as he is in canon. It might be, I guess.

Anyway, good list. I'll tape it to a wall somewhere. :)

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

Stories that portray Rodney as constantly calling his staff idiots bug me, because what we saw in Hot Zone and Trinity and even a couple of others was a kind of rough patience mixed in with grudging praise. He's not a cheerleader, but he's also not always saying that every scientist is a moron. I tend to find that kind of characterization lazy, and lacking in the depth that make these people seem real to me.

[emrinalexander.livejournal.com]

I was impressed with him in Hot Zone, because while everybody else was kind of flailing, Rodney just gritted his teeth, organized everybody and got to work - he was a leader. Period. And they responded to him as such. No, he wasn't some kind of postivie feeling cheerleader (I've never worked for a boss who was, actually), but he wasn't reducing people to tears every five minutes either. I figure, he's got some of the best minds around reporting to him, and they seem to have no problems with him as their department head, so that says something. I hate stories where he is making other multi-degreed scientists cry, that's not remotely canon, and I can't see it from extrapolation from canon either.

[lydiabell.livejournal.com]

When Rodney made the crack at the beginning of Hot Zone about, "I hardly ever get to say this, but good job, everyone" nobody batted an eye. I just don't think they take the crap he dishes out all that seriously. That doesn't really make it OK for him to talk to people the way he does, but it doesn't seem to have any negative effect on his ability to work with them either.

[neery.livejournal.com]

I can believe stories where Rodney makes someone cry, because I cry easily when people mock me or scream at me, despite being reasonably intelligent and rather tough in other aspects, so I have no problem believeing that one or the other female scientist might let his tirades get to them occasionally -- but he doesn't do it all the time, or on purpose, for god's sake. I bet Rodney is one of these people who get really uncomfortable, flustered and embarrassed when someone cries, especially if they've caused it.

And it's pretty obvious to me that his people respect him.

[everagaby.livejournal.com]

I absolutely ADORE you and your pet peeves.

P.S. Can there be a Jenn's Pet Peeve fanfic challenge? I totally call number 9, if only to write a really, really funny story about him sleeping with all his commanders, and getting that black mark on his record because he refused to snuggle.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

getting that black mark on his record because he refused to snuggle.

Oh god, that is a hilarious idea. And Rodney could overcome John's aversion to snuggling with his true love!

[delmi.livejournal.com]

Yes, I am asking a great deal, you know, *balancing a character*. But hey, I have faith. Or I have hope.

I want to have a little bit of your faith...I *really* want that...*sigh*

[namastenancy.livejournal.com]

What I have total faith in is your ability to write great stories, either canon or AU. If you were to write any of the above, well then, it would be a fabulous read. And personally - I want to read the one where John sleeps his way up the chain of command.

Because I'm completely juvenile in that way.