because it is very early and I'm very awake

The horrible danger of insomnia combined with friendsfriends--God. It's *crack*. I am totally understanding the draw. Currently working on avoiding ep reviews nad spoilers, since I haen't watched The Return yet.

Anyway, while cruising along, I came across an entry--oh, just an entry of SGA squee, pre-episode, mentioning this and that and then, randomly at the end, a sudden diatribe against Joe Flanigan's acting skills. There was generalized horror and repugnance and the usual--weirdly usual, almost rote--discussion of the level of suckitude, so normal I don't even *notice* with any more than a blink.

Huh, I said, and as usual, skimmed and wandered off.

But it being five in the morning, I thought, well. It's fandom, and this is what we do. We sit around dissecting shows, characters, and actors. So I have to ask, because I can--um, what the hell?

I don't pretend to be anything close to an expert on acting, other than hoping Keanu Reeves is given few lines at any given time and a lot of really good shots of him being hot. That's as far as I get on appreciating this nebulous realm of 'good' versus 'bad'. But the fairly constant discussion of Joe Flanigan's lack of talent, lack of emoting, lack of this, lack of that--often paired up, oddly enough, with essays on David Hewlett's brilliance at whatever the poster has watched/did watch/is watching--it really makes me wonder. Otherwise squeeful individuals break into really *sudden* critiques of things like how Joe performed a ten second facial expression during a scene, or lapse into--and this is what's jarring, I'm reading along on meta and halfway through the paragraph just--boom. This sudden really *odd* invective. And at first it was annoying, then I progressed to the shrug/personal taste, then I started to doubt myself and wonder if there was something wrong with *me* that I wasn't climbing on the Joe Sucks At His Job Bandwagon, and progressed to think, wait. Am I sitting here thinking I need to *look* for reasons to critique an actor because half my fandom spends quality time--and a serious number of entries--telling me that he sucks? Was my John bias showing?

Wait, I thought. I like the character of John. The character is played by Joe, who plays the character of John in a way I like. Ergo, I think I like how Joe does his job. I remembered the stuff thepouncer sent me and thought, huh. I liked that, too. That was kind of a relief.

I think at this point, it's just the build-up of seeing it so often--wow, so damned often, Jesus--and seeing it, not always, but a good chunk of the time, in direct contrast to a meta on DH's fantastical talent. Long, long entries on fantastical talent. Long, long entries on fantastical talent and etcetera. And you know, the coolness is there to love the actor. What I can't quite work out is how slamming Joe comes into a essay about how great DH is. Is that--supporting evidence or something? That kind of loses me in wondering what on earth the point is. I'm not sure how repeating in various formats how *much* Joe sucks is somehow going to make the DH adulation more convincing. I mean, I was sort of convinced without it? Then I just got irritated.

So I had this thought. It's a stupid thought, but then, everyone has stupid thoughts and they post them anyway. I was wondering, is there a direct correlation between how dramatic/flamboyant a character is--think McKay, Lex Luthor, Lionel Luthor, Justin Taylor--and the higher incident of actor popularity? I'm thinking of how TW in SV also picked up a lot of flack for being a sucky actor, with the exception of the times he was very flamboyant--Red comes to mind, and the beginning of season three that I can never remember the name of. Or Brian, for that matter in QaF.

Hmm. I feel this weird need to ponder this, but I also feel a real need to clean my bathroom, and neither are getting done at this second, because my greater need is to blankly stare at my flist in hopes I'll get sleepy. I'm just--weirded out by it, I think.

Comments

[kodiak-bear.livejournal.com]

Another lurker, but hey, this is to show that JF/John *does* have fans and I don't think we are so much in the minority, as that like others have mentioned, we tend to be a quieter bunch.

I haven't run into a whole lot of Joe bashing (thank God), but I've been steered to some discussions with a 'defend our guy' statement. The thing is, I rarely do because a) seeing Joe bashed makes me feel slightly sick and b) you can rarely 'make' anyone reconsider their prejudices and beliefs.

I'm a huge fangirl of Joe's, which is completely weird because normally as much as I like a show and the characters, I completely stay away from actors. I loved X-Files, loved Mulder, but never got into David Duchovny.

Anyway, about the acting thing, I'd love to write an essay on what it is about him that makes Sheppard my OTC, but it's all ready been said over and over again so I won't waste anyone's time. Suffice to say that Joe has created a character on the screen that completely sucks me in. Off screen, Joe has presented himself as a person who I can appreciate as an actor.

I never took theater, I don't have any intimate knowledge of the ins and outs of cues, awkwardness, or anything of that nature, but I have been a television fan for a majority of my life, and I can say that Joe's subtle body language, his eyes, his movements, go a long way to give us insights into Sheppard.

And whoever mentioned having a hard time watching CG because of that was dead on the money. I love that episode, but those early shots kill me. Joe delivered like a big thing and it's quiet possibly one of the few times that something on screen has made me physically *hurt*.

I've never understood character/actor bashing. Sheppard is my OTC, but I thoroughly enjoy the Sheppard-McKay dynamic.

And the whole 'poor Rodney, evil John' fic...I hate it. Hate it with a passion. But I hated the 'poor Daniel, evil Jack' too. I think it's completely OOC, and I can't for the life of me see where it's coming from because it sure as heck isn't on the screen, for either shows. Yes, they badger and tease, but to believe that John would be awful to Rodney (and do him harm) goes against the grain of their friendship shown on the screen. I know that fanfic is the interpretation of the writer, and that writers can do their thing, which is why I just avoid it, but it definitely causes a spike on the ire meter because I don't know where that stuff comes from. And I really don't want to.

I'm surrounded by fellow Shep fans and happy in my little world! ::grin::

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

Heee> Good to see you here, Sweetie. Isn't this a beautiful, safe, place?

We all need to band together like this. Some have said they feel so ALONE in loving Shep/Joe. And that they feel almost ashamed to admit they like him. And HEAVEN FORBID you apprecitate his looks. That utterly means he's a sucky actor and yourself, as a poster, is of the shallow. ::Shakes head::

And those fics? Eep. We've talked.

Someone above said we need to create a place. We really should. Where we can post after an ep and squee about Shep/Joe and not end up running into LJ's/posts that diminish the squee.

We could offer up Shep H/C for that. Whatcha think?

[trobadora]

A JF appreciation society. :-)

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

That would be outrageously awesome. Can someone with skilz do that? I'd totally join up.


A JF/Shep appreciation society aka SAFE HAVEN for Shep/Joe fans. LOL

[trobadora]

I'd join too - I'd love that. And judging by the echo this post generated, quite a few people would.

[kodiak-bear.livejournal.com]

Is there really no JF comm yet? I'd be thrilled in one too, completely.

[trobadora]

There are place like flanigandaily (pics) and joeflaniganinfo (info and pics), but they have a very narrow focus. There's no general place that I'm aware of, certainly no discussion or squee comm.

[trobadora]

And sorry, that was supposed to be flanigan_daily!

[kodiak-bear.livejournal.com]

Oh, I understand what you mean. It'd be lovely then if we had a place! I'd volunteer in a second if I thought I could do it justice but right now I can't even keep up with emails ::blushes:: but if anyone else is willing, I'd join in a flash.

Until then, there's no reason why the Sheppard H/C comm can't be a squeee place. It was created with a focus on Sheppard and that extends to squeee. The comm is ran by myself, shelly and VK, so anyone's welcome to come and post about Sheppard/Joe.

[trobadora]

Thanks for opening up the comm for that! I think the h/c focus may turn people away who are more interested in talking about other aspects, though, so I do hope someone will create a new place. Like you, I can barely keep up with my existing commitments at the moment...

[kodiak-bear.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'd think that'd be the case, with it being a comm geared towards a specific genre so maybe someone with a little more free time would be willing to jump in and create a Joe Comm where we can discuss everything and have fun!

[kodiak-bear.livejournal.com]

We completely could do that, open up a discussion thread for the episodes as they air, a Sheppard-safe zone, though I wouldn't want to see any bashing in the thread of any actor. It's not going to be anything H/C but it's Sheppard related so hopefully people will come to discuss Sheppard even if they aren't into H/C fic.

I think it's a brilliant idea! :)

And yep, Seperis (sorry to talk about ya but well, you know, you're *right here* anyway) is on my flist just 'cause not only good fic, but a Sheppard fan to boot! I lurk but love to read the post episode thoughts. Oh, and the rabbits. And lizards. *sheepish grin*

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

Yeppers. That's why she's on my friends list too. From the get go. LOL

I think using the Shep H/C or starting a new place. Whatever. Just somewhere would be Awesome. And agreed. No actor bashing. Discussion of acting skills allowed, but leave the bashing by the way side.

[trobadora]

A new place would be neat - something that'd be JF-focused, not just Shep. No bashing of anyone should go without saying, but mainly, a safe place to share our love for JF and Shep, in any way, shape or form. I'd really love that.

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

Kodiak and I have this Shep H/C place. We started it more for Shep H/C stories but we can totally modify it to welcome Joe/Shep discussions and do weekly posts for each ep. Once they're back. LOL

It's an LJ.

http://community.livejournal.com/sheppard_hc/profile

[trobadora]

Kodiak and I were talking about that here just now! I think it'd be very difficult to get people to go to a comm that's designed for one specific genre, and even has that genre in its name, with more general discussions, so a new comm would probably be more easily accepted. But weekly posts would be cool anyway! It's only a month until the rest of the season starts airing in Canada, after all. :-)

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

That'll teach me to post without reading everything.

Even if people just want to check out the great fics. And we really can open it up to discussion.

Otherwise, I'll happily wait for some skilled person to start a new place. ::Nods::

[kodiak-bear.livejournal.com]

You know, we could switch it to a Sheppard/Joe comm? Our main focus when we started it up was a place for Sheppard fic, and we just went with H/C because that's our thing. But it can be a catch-all place. We'd need to do a poll on the comm and see if a majority would be okay with it, and then we can alter the comm to encapsulate more and I agree with the episode discussions too. Anyway, we can take this to email and go from there cause now we're just cluttering up Seperis's journal.

[trobadora]

Just one thing, though - the comm name contains the h/c, and that might be a problem?

But you're right, we should really stop spamming seperis's journal now! *g*

[kodiak-bear.livejournal.com]

I've sent an email off to the two other maintainers to see about changing the comm to reflect all aspects of Sheppard and Joe or opening another comm just for that purpose.

If a majority is okay with just altering the comm, we'll change the name to reflect that. The name can be changed, right? ::showing her LJ stupidity:: And yeah, I can see her cringing and thinking 'not the topic guys'! (promise will stop)

[trobadora]

LJ names can be changed, yeah, if you want to spend the money on it: FAQ #25

Really stopping now. *g*

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*hysterical giggling* I honestly do not care.

But if either of you decide instead to start a new comm or something? Or if you alter this one? Please tell me so I can join and pimp.

[kodiak-bear.livejournal.com]

I've posted a poll on it so I will let you know. The members I know personally would probably be all for it but there are members I'm not familiar with. Thanks for the link to the FAQ trobadora, paying a little wouldn't bother me to change the name. ::sigh:: some things in life are worth a little and JoeF is one of them. (that was a happy fangirl sigh, btw!)