Tuesday, July 31st, 2012 10:22 pm

ep: teen wolf 2.10

..what the hell just happened?



I should probably disclaim this with the following: I have ridic amounts of Derek and Allison apologism in general and for this ep in specific. Which is really difficult to do with one trying to kill the other, but work with me. There is a very real part of me that could watch them slaughter a bus of schoolchildren and think this is totally understandable due to, well, trauma. As one does.

Now to: trust games, how to play and lose.

1.) Matt - I will probably be in the somewhat morally ambiguous minority in saying that while I know it is bad to kill people, I am less upset about it when they a.) have boatloads of moral culpability in why someone wants them dead and b.) the person killing them was given the equivalent of a death note power of thinking people to death. Which is at least partially what Matt was able to do here, and I'll be honest; there's a pretty good reason why people can't do that.

(On a personal note, the summer after third grade, I was leaped upon by a girl who could not swim and that memory is very vivid. I mean, they got me out before I passed out and I was nowhere near in need of medical attention or anything after, but trust me when I say, Matt's memory of that freaked me the fuck out. There's a fair to good chance that could be at least partially responsible for later development of my claustrophobia.)

However, I do hold him responsible for the attempted murder of Danny, as that was a CYA and not someone who caused him personal injury, and the police officer, and basically, anyone he killed who was not part of the entire traumatic experience, so.

On the other hand, it is really hard to hold onto that when Gerard fucking drowned him. Which I think the show was actually going for after Matt's break with reality in this ep.

2.) Christ, Allison. The return to kick-ass is interesting in that, like before, she's responding to personal trauma when she becomes terrifying. That was just--God. Allison. Dude, boatload of kittens, I'd forgive her that. Her life, Jesus.

3.) I did not see Scott's collaboration with Gerard coming, and for a variety of reasons, I just cannot deal rationally with this. I'm not going to now because what. the. fuck.

But also, I finally figured out that all of my issues with Scott, quite literally, involve the fact that he has no interests outside of Allison. I mean, even goddamn lacrosse is about Allison. The horror of being a werewolf (I have yet to understand the drawbacks inherent in being a werewolf, only in other people (aka hunters) knowing about it once you get control of yourself)--about Allison. Joining Derek's pack--about Allison, because I can pretty much guarantee the implicit deal included some idea of getting to still be with her because come the fuck on, he wouldn't deal with another hunter, but Allison's grandpa? Throw everyone under the bus. Informing on Derek's pack--about Allison. Informing about the kanima with at least some idea that Gerard was going straight for the kill, informing hunters who want to kill all werewolves period and who will likely kill Derek, Erica, Isaac, and Boyd, that's all okay because hey, he gets Allison.

It's just, it was cute and less disturbing when his obsession didn't actively involve assuring a lot of innocent people's deaths.

(I'd kill to know what Scott thought was going to happen, though. This didn't go according to plan? So what was the plan?

4.) Stiles crawling toward his dad just broke my heart. Oh Stiles. God. Stiles. Just, Stiles.

5.) Grandpa Creeper remains utterly creepy, but also, interesting. I kind of--in a very you-are-an-evil-villain-I-hate way--really love him like a lot. What makes me wonder deeply about Scott's inability to process anything, ever, is that at no point did he pick up the possibility that Grandpa Creeper wanted the kanima. Going back a few eps where the kanima was circling around him while he remained still and Chris asked him why, he said that it was knowing the enemy.

He also wanted Victoria Argent bitten, and I find that really, really interesting.

This part is theory based on other people's speculation:

Okay, it's possible Gerard's drug habit is some kind of anti-lycanthropy thing, which then, why wouldn't he share with Victoria so there wouldn't be suicide, which brings up three possibilities:
a.) he is just that against ever telling anyone he's a werewolf, ever, that he got bitten and his holding it off by sheer will and drug use.
b.) he bit Victoria, so he really couldn't let her survive because she'd know he was her alpha when it was fairly obvious it wasn't Derek.
c.) he's a kanima himself (and using the drugs to suppress that) and wants another kanima himself to figure out how to fix that shit so he can transform.

The reason Gerard-as-werewolf-or-kanima appeals to me is that it might explain why Kate Argent would have gone to a small town with a small and completely innocuous family of werewolves to kill them all in a goddamn house fire. I have suspected--since she said exactly that--that if she was following orders, she was following Gerard's, and the only reason I can think why anyone would bother with that personal a long term plan that involved banging one of the werewolves so as to kill his entire family and this was revenge on a Hale (probably Peter?) biting Gerard and blah blah blah. It's not that I don't think Kate was sociopathic enough to do it, but you know, that's a lot of trouble to go to, and a really convoluted way to go about it, not to mention time-consuming, just to wipe out a pack of werewolves who are literally doing nothing but living normal human lives, along with any humans in there.

It may or may not be significant that Gerard is the only one who saw Peter Hale wandering around and stared at him as if he was trying to place him. It also may or may not be significant that Peter Hale was the only one who saw Gerard take control of the kanima.

See, I even know this isn't how this is going to play out, because this show seriously goes the path of least predictability every time, but seriously, Gerard is just killing me with his awesome evil.

I hate to say this, but Peter Hale's presence is kind of comforting. I mean, sure, he's evil and kinda crazy, but he's also the only person that hasn't been effectively neutralized by Gerard between Gerard being grandfather of Allison and with Scott selling out everyone else.

6.) Okay, I've tried like, numerous times to actually break down my entire feelings on Derek, and I still just have this huge block. I mean, he makes terrible, terrible decisions. He does really sketchy things. But to be fair:

a.) Kate Argent seduced him, while he was still in high school, specifically so she could burn his entire family to death and only he, his sister, and his comatose uncle survive.
b.) his sister is then murdered and cut in half.
c.) by his no longer comatose uncle but totally by accident.
d.) then he was shot and later tortured by Kate Argent with beyond horrifying creepy sexual assault overtones tossed in just to make the entire horror just that much more horrific.
e.) then tortured by Nameless Hunter Thug (did he have a name?)
f.) then discovers no longer comatose uncle killed Laura on purpose.
g.) falsely accused of murdering his sister and other people by Scott (and later, due to Scott, by Stiles) for reasons I have yet to actually understand because what was the logic there?
h.) and multiple characters debate leaving him to die/be tortured/whatever for no particular reason.
i.) most recently, utterly fucked over by Scott.
j.) blamed for Victoria Argent's suicide.

I mean, on one hand, very sketchy pack recruiting. On the other, I have to admit a certain sympathy for wanting to have at least a few people around who at minimum are neutral on the killing him issue and at best might like him for effectively making their lives less miserable. Also, Boyd wants friends, and dude, Derek needs a goddamn friend. That's a match made in werewolf land right there.

I'm not saying he makes good decisions here, but I also kind of blinked at Deaton's entire trust thing there because honest to God, I have yet to see anyone in this show that Derek could trust on the low bar of not actively or passively contributing to his death, accusing him of murders they know he didn't commit, or trying to arrest him for murders he didn't commit.

I am deeply, deeply curious what Allison and Stiles will say when they find out Scott was working with Gerard. I also deeply, deeply wish I knew what the original plan was that Scott agreed to.

Also, why isn't it next week??????
scy: (bad moon rising)

From: [personal profile] scy Date: 2012-08-01 03:27 am (UTC)
I want to thump Scott. That, was just the worst plan ever. I mean, if he actually practiced what he preached 'doesn't being part of your pack mean no more secrets?' then he could have known that his mom was PROTECTED, and Allison wouldn't be as easily manipulated by somebody who oh- STABBED A KID IN THE GUT AND THREATENED HIS MOTHER.

Plus, Derek.
The guy needs a friend. And a hug, because it's way too late for therapy.

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From: [personal profile] scy - Date: 2012-08-01 03:39 am (UTC) - expand

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From: [personal profile] mercurybard - Date: 2012-08-01 11:03 am (UTC) - expand
welfycat: A MS Paint drawing of me. (Default)

From: [personal profile] welfycat Date: 2012-08-01 04:33 am (UTC)
My response to that whole episode was pretty much Lydia's response to seeing were-Erica for the first time: "What the holy hell is that?" (Lydia is now occasionally my in mind voice when I react to things.)

Scott. I just. I can't even. What was he thinking? Does he think??? Couldn't he have at the very freaking least told Stiles? What is going ON HERE? At this point, if Scott wasn't the main character (and we don't get some really good closure about this), I would be pretty okay with Derek doing the whole ripping his throat out for betraying the pack type thing. Because my heart just freaking hurts for Derek and his pack, and to set Gerard on them because of reasons I CAN'T UNDERSTAND, is so not okay. I was pretty much dumbstruck during that scene with Gerard and Scott. If Scott's goals here are his survival, the survival of his mom, and to be able to date Allison, this is a really crappy way of going about it. What did Scott think would happen to him if he helps Gerard kill Derek and the pack? Did he REALLY think that Gerard would just leave him alone?

I actually think that in retrospect Derek's pack recruiting makes a certain amount of sense. Yeah, they aren't the most stable werewolves, but Derek essentially 'saved' them (Isaac in particular) and that grants him a certain amount of loyalty from them. (I actually really love that Isaac is so very clearly jealous that Derek wants Scott in the pack. And I think Stiles had the right idea in the first season, about does Peter Hale still want Scott in his pack when his username and password are both Allison, which is a beautiful hint at Scott's priorities there.)

I love the idea of Gerard as a werewolf. Horrifying, yet fascinating, and makes quite a bit of sense. Also, when the kanima wasn't afraid of water anymore after Matt died, it makes me wonder what watching the kanima might reveal about Gerard.

Matt. I've been thinking about that a lot and I'm just horrified on so many levels. I think the thing that got to me was that Matt is about the same age as Scott and Stiles and everyone, meaning sixteen or seventeen. Meaning he would have been 10 or 11 when he was almost drowned by a bunch of high school kids and then had a terrifying man threatening him and telling him it was his fault. It's seriously twisty and disturbing on a metaphorical level. So, while I'm glad he's not killing people anymore, I do feel a lot of sympathy for his character, especially with the way Gerard kills him. Pretty horrific overall.

I'm still pondering the chemistry teacher and the kanima. Maybe it's a red herring but I think there's more there. The way he interacts with Jackson is downright disturbing. The idea has come up that he was the one who killed Jackson's parents before he became sober, which, possible. I don't know. Jackson's issues by itself is disturbing to me. Clearly the kanima is an identity issue, where he could possibly become a wolf (become part of his real family), but something is holding him back. It just bothers me on a lot of levels with the piece of information that Jackson hasn't said "I love you" to his adoptive parents in 11 years. Which meant Jackson was 5 or 6 when he was told he was adopted. What exactly did they tell him (or did someone in his extended family tell him, maybe) to give him issues like that as such an incredibly young child?

I have so many confusing thoughts and feelings and this show is just driving me crazy (with love, mostly). It also emotionally devastates me on a weekly basis, especially Stiles and his dad. Those two are so wonderful and so much pain all at the same time.

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mercurybard: How many miles to Babylon? (Default)

Hi

From: [personal profile] mercurybard Date: 2012-08-01 11:20 am (UTC)
Scott's dumb, and he's terrified for his mom (who is awesome and overworked and a little spazzy but who still tries very hard to be a good mom) who wasn't really in danger in the first season except from Scott himself, and Gerard probably gave him the werewolf equivalent of "if you go to the police..." He watched Gerard cut that omega in half, which probably went along way to making Gerard a Big Bad in his mind.

Plus, there's the kanima. Who is scarier and more powerful than Peter Hale (if essentially mindless). Every attempt Scott and his friends or Derek and his pack have made to stop it has failed. Hell, Derek would have drown if Stiles hadn't been willing to tread water for two hours, holding his head above water.

Maybe in his little potato brain, Scott is hoping an enemy-of-my-enemy situation will get two of the Big Bads in his life to go away. Worst plan ever, but fitting with Scott's immaturity.

Gerard is a conniving evil old man--he alternately reminds me of Tamora, Queen of the Goths from Titus and John Winchester if he lived to be 70 without killing YED.

It would be a lot easier to ruin Gerard's plans if certain people (Scott, Allison, Stiles) would let other certain people (Sheriff Stilinski, Lydia) in on the secret. I'm turning into this fandom's [profile] iphiginia939, yelling "PHONE TREE" at the tv set every episode.
sapote: Allison from Teen Wolf aiming a bow at the camera (Allison: Teen Wolf)

Re: Hi

From: [personal profile] sapote Date: 2012-08-01 11:34 am (UTC)
Haha, yeah, I'm still at the feeling that the major stupid betrayal of the season was everyone not just TELLING LYDIA. Lydia would be such an asset but noooooo you guys had to go and let her get possessed by Zombie Peter and never take thirty seconds to listen to her problems.

Sheriff Stilinski knows now, right? Like, he will know by next episode that his son hasn't just been ruining his life for no reason but has actually been trying to protect the people around him responsibly and in a way he doesn't have the life tools for yet, right? Because ::sob::
sapote: Derek Hale has red eyes and looks menacing (evil!Derek Hale)

From: [personal profile] sapote Date: 2012-08-01 11:26 am (UTC)
Haha I'm a Scott apologist so maybe I should keep my head down for the rest of the season but my feelings are mostly based on the idea that Derek is basically Scott six years older and from a goatee-wearing parallel universe where everything went horribly wrong. Because they really seem to share a basic tendency to just do things, one after the other, without pausing to really think it out. And their best moral impulses and worst planning really seem to stem from family loyalty - Scott's to his mother, and Derek's one-sided loyalty to Scott.
cereta: Talia's hand holding a knife, words "Not a damsel" (knife)

From: [personal profile] cereta Date: 2012-08-01 01:04 pm (UTC)
What you said ;). Scott can be very, very all about Allison, but I do think it's worth remembering that Gerard threatened his mom, and I can see him feeling like there's no one he can go to in that regard (except Stiles, whom he might feel like he's caused enough trouble).
sarashina_nikki: (Default)

From: [personal profile] sarashina_nikki Date: 2012-08-01 11:30 am (UTC)
Not gonna lie, after Deaton's verbal dressing down of Derek for not trusting Scott I felt a bit vindicated to see that Derek was RIGHT not to. Your advising skills need some work, mystical adviser dude.
dani_the_girl: (Default)

From: [personal profile] dani_the_girl Date: 2012-08-03 08:01 pm (UTC)
Yeah! I thought that was a potentially interesting subversion of the whole mystical negro thing that's been set up - maybe Deaton's just as fallible as everyone else.
dani_the_girl: (Default)

From: [personal profile] dani_the_girl Date: 2012-08-03 08:06 pm (UTC)
Harris is just around so much, in the background, that I assume there must be something going on with him. He's clearly not just a dude, but I can't figure out what's going on there.

The whole Scott/Gerard thing made no sense and, for all that I dislike Scott, I'm kind of not processing it right now.

I really really liked the way they dealt with Matt though, because he is basically a person who had a horrible traumatic episode and was dealing with it internally and then ended up being completely screwed up by living in Beacon Hills. Normally, you see the guy who threatened you after hosting the party where you were nearly drowned, you think "Oh god, I wish you were fucking dead!" and that's that, but round here, oh no, and he's kind of driven nuts just by being where he is. I agree re his culpability for the deaths but I had huge compassion for him and the shitty hand he was dealt.
ext_21468: (Default)

From: [identity profile] dameange.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 03:30 am (UTC)
Thank you, Jenn, for articulating for me why I can barely stand Scott. For me, this show is about everyone else except him. Honestly, I like Grandpa Creepy more than I like Scott sometimes.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 03:37 am (UTC)
Dude, Grandpa Creeper is supposed to screw everyone over! He's good at it! It's like, all over him. He's so very good at it. *bounces*

From: [identity profile] ivy03.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 03:35 am (UTC)
Scott is so canonically dumb as a box of hair, that I'd actually buy that Gerard told him he just wanted to talk to the kanima or something similar.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 03:38 am (UTC)
...that is terrifyingly possible. He would, wouldn't he?
thornsilver: (Default)

From: [personal profile] thornsilver Date: 2012-08-01 03:57 am (UTC)
I am actually too scared to watch this episode, because I <3 Derek, and I cannot see him get hurt.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:14 am (UTC)
I KNOW. But this ep? Awesome.

From: [identity profile] kelly-girl.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:00 am (UTC)
Gerard also threatened Scott's mom after sticking a knife in Scott at the hospital, then told him she'd be next.

Yes, it's mostly about Allison, Allison, Allison, but in part he was trying to protect his mom from Granpa Tigh. And I can't wait to see how she deals with teen wolf as her son.

Gerard has said he's really big on getting other people to do his dirty work and it's working.

I try not to like Peter but man, I like Peter.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:26 am (UTC)
Yes, it's mostly about Allison, Allison, Allison, but in part he was trying to protect his mom from Granpa Tigh. And I can't wait to see how she deals with teen wolf as her son.

Point, but I can't help thinking he wouldn't have taken that deal--and kept it all a secret--if it hadn't been Allison's grandfather. And I know that's unfair--mostly--to Scott, but gah. Conspiring with Grandpa Creeper who has declared war on all werewolves is actively stupid at minimum.

And yes, I like Peter coming back so much. Peter is awesome.

From: [identity profile] aliaswestgate.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:04 am (UTC)
I'm in the lycanthropy for Gerard camp myself. But i reconsidered and decided he was bitten a long time ago, before Peter was an alpha. So it might have been one of the previous Hale Alphas. He's old enough to hold a grudge against the family, cause this is a freaking blood feud. One sided for him,as there hasn't been any information about the Hales continuing to harass him. But Davis may dribble that out in the next 2 eps for all we know.

This man is as good as the Bard with his twisty plots. Definite fanboy.

Is it monday yet?

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:18 am (UTC)
I KNOW MONDAY NOW PLEASE.

Yes, his vendetta is personal, definitely.

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From: [identity profile] incapricious.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:13 am (UTC)
Oh man it's not like I liked Matt at all, but when Gerard drowned him I started sobbing because it's something he's been traumatized by for like 6 years and had nightmares about and then that's how he died and I have such an intense fear of drowning/not being able to breathe and I had to cover my eyes because I was going to have a panic attack watching it otherwise. Augh. Horrible, even though he clearly needed to be stopped. It was just so evil. Not like killing him to stop him, but killing him in the exact worst way for him. Yeah I probably was not supposed to feel badly for him in that moment but I did anyway.

... I have thoughts on your other things but I am forcing myself to go to bed at a semi-reasonable hour. Sigh.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:17 am (UTC)
I honestly think that is what the show was going for with his death in how it was framed to echo the original trauma. I mean, yes, what he did was evil, but the way he died was supposed to be reminder of the horror of what caused his actions, so it was definitely going for sympathy.

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From: [identity profile] just-for-kicks.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:21 am (UTC)
I think a lot of people forget that Gerard stabbed Scott when he went to go pick up his mom, and threatened to kill her if Scott didn't do something for him at a later date. Scott may be an idiot but he'd do anything for his mom, no questions asked (whether or not he should have asked questions or gotten help is another story). I dont think he cared what Gerard was going to do with the kanima as long as his mom was safe. And as for things not going the way they planned, I think it was simply his mom and stiles' dad being there that was never supposed to happen - they were never supposed to be at risk.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:37 am (UTC)
I think a lot of people forget that Gerard stabbed Scott when he went to go pick up his mom, and threatened to kill her if Scott didn't do something for him at a later date.

It's not that I don't get that, it's just I'm not convinced he would have taken that deal and not tried to find a way out--or tell anyone--if it hadn't been Allison's grandfather. Which is probably being unfair to Scott, I know.

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From: [identity profile] destro.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:29 am (UTC)
Yeah, I got what [livejournal.com profile] just_for_kicks from Scott as well, more about protecting his mom than being with Allison.

On top of that, I think Scott's trying to do the responsible thing in the whole -- inform an adult that's equipped to handle this sort of thing (sort of the subverting the classic teen hero trope in the process), but Gerard has zero fucks to give for something he perceives as a monster.

But then again, I think Scott has pretty valid reasons not to be a werewolf, considering Alphas can control other werewolves (too the point of making them kill their friends, family) as well as constantly harboring that fear of if you let your guard down, you might hurt someone you care for. On top of that, I think the strain of keeping shit from his mom was weighing on him, which made Melissa discovering the truth all the more potent. I think he cares for Allison, and wants to be with her, but I don't necessarily see how everything he does is tied with staying with her, either? But maybe I need to do a rewatch.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:52 am (UTC)
On top of that, I think Scott's trying to do the responsible thing in the whole -- inform an adult that's equipped to handle this sort of thing (sort of the subverting the classic teen hero trope in the process), but Gerard has zero fucks to give for something he perceives as a monster.

That only makes sense if his earliest views of Gerard didn't involve watching him cut an innocent werewolf in half and who said it was war against werewolves outright. And then stabbing him and threatening to kill his mom.

I am interested, however, that with Peter Hale back, if he's got an Alpha again.

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From: [identity profile] the-third-i.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:39 am (UTC)
Ditto, about being oddly comforted by Peter's presence. Derek, along with his pack, remind me of a bunch of children playing tag in the dark. Crazy though uncle Peter may be, he makes plans tens steps in advance, and knows how to get sh*t done!

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 04:53 am (UTC)
Peter being back? SHIT JUST GOT REAL. And crazier. So much crazier.

skim reading makes me pick up the weirdest things, but....

From: (Anonymous) Date: 2012-08-01 05:37 am (UTC)
Where's point #4? I can be totally blind sometimes, but to me it looks like we go from #3 (collaboration with Gerard) to #5 (heartbreaking Stiles-crawlage)....?
...I have no idea. I think I meant to put something in there for foour and then skipped. Fixing numbering now!

From: [identity profile] suzvoy.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-01 06:30 am (UTC)
I love the meta this show produces. Truly <3

From: [identity profile] kuhekabir.livejournal.com Date: 2012-08-04 03:46 pm (UTC)
Scott is just the personification of dumb and utterly self absorbed. I hope Stiles realizes this soon and just sticks to Derek. Despite Derek's stupid decisions at times, he always tries to protect others. With Scott? It's mostly about Allison...as if he has no other topic...he doesn't deserve a friend like Stiles.

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    -- silverkyst and seperis, on more wtf
    AIM, 1/25/2005
  • You know, if obi-wan had just disciplined the boy *properly* we wouldn't be having these problems. Can't you just see yoda? "Take him in hand, you must. The true Force, you must show him."
    -- Issaro, on spanking Anakin in his formative years
    LJ, 3/15/2005
  • Aside from the fact that one person should never go near another with a penis, a bottle of body wash, and a hopeful expression...
    -- Summerfling, on shower sex
    LJ, 7/22/2005
  • It's weird, after you get used to the affection you get from a rabbit, it's like any other BDSM relationship. Only without the sex and hot chicks in leather corsets wielding floggers. You'll grow to like it.
    -- revelininsanity, on my relationship with my rabbit
    LJ, 2/7/2006
  • Smudged upon the near horizon, lapine shadows in the mist. Like a doomsday vision from Watership Down, the bunny intervention approaches.
    -- cpt_untouchable, on my addition of The Fourth Bunny
    LJ, 4/13/2006
  • Rule 3. Chemistry is kind of like bondage. Some people like it, some people like reading about or watching other people doing it, and a large number of people's reaction to actually doing the serious stuff is to recoil in horror.
    -- deadlychameleon, on class
    LJ, 9/1/2007
  • If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then Fan Fiction is John Cusack standing outside your house with a boombox.
    -- JRDSkinner, on fanfiction
    Twitter
  • I will unashamedly and unapologetically celebrate the joy and the warmth and the creativity of a community of people sharing something positive and beautiful and connective and if you don’t like it you are most welcome to very fuck off.
    -- Michael Sheen, on Good Omens fanfic
    Twitter
    , 6/19/2019
  • Adding for Mastodon.
    -- Jenn, traceback
    Fosstodon
    , 11/6/2022

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