two of five metas i will never get around to doing

In honor of wip_amnesty, since I still refuse to give up on any of my stories, though The Forest People is getting to that place where I could just put up a post saying, please take this and make it work.....

Five Metas I Will Probably Never Get Around to Doing:



1.) Fanny and Mansfield Park:

This is my kicker. It's my most favorite discussion topic, because I change my mind every time I read it. Fanny amuses and annoys and just *irrtates* me by turns, and I spend quality time thinking Edmund so needs that stick just *jerked* out of his ass, and occassionally, I think Henry Crawford needs therapy for his issues more than anyone I have ever seen or read about. Cause wow. Issues. No one without issues nails the cousin of the chick he wants to marry, 'kay? That does not happen. Issues.

And the thing is, I love this book. Of all the Jane Austen's, excepting the perfection of Pride and Prejudice, I love reading it best, and sometimes more. So *much* happens. People wander off to India, people flirt, people act stupid, people come back, get married, commit adultery, and then more people get married. None of the characters are inherently likable, to me, so their misfortunes are all for fun and games.





2.) John Sheppard, the Military, and Atlantis:

The thing is, I owe like, massive apologies to every Clark person out there from SV. Seriously. Yes, he was a dumbass sometimes, but I never realized my rabid-rabbit attacks on him could be so freaking *annoying*, and hey, why the hell did you keep me on your friendslist, why in the *name of God* was I not flamed for some of this stuff? *I* look back and twitch at some of my tantrums. Seriously, I am *sorry*. I had no idea.

Which is now a problem in a fandom where, at least as far as I can see, has a definite McKay lean, so being a minority opinion of Sheppard-dom is totally my comeuppance for the thing where I hung Clark from the ceiling. On any given day, sorting through SGA meta, I will come across at least one, and maybe two, posts slamming John, and I can only imagine what the post-Sanctuary ljland was like and glad I wasn't around to see it. And I get this is extremely subjective--I do. And so I feel like the most annoying and hypocritical fangirl ever when I'm going through ep reviews and trying to sort who I know is Sheppard-sympathetic adn who will spend like, five thousand words slamming him into the ground and fighting the urge to post retaliatorily in my lj when you know, I *like* other fangirls, and I honestly do not want to be the kind of fan that plays dramatic every time someone posts negatively about her character.

It's not just John, though he's like, center of my fangirl universe, but the military slams, and the stupid military slams, and the dumb stupid homophobic military slams, and the blah blah blah, headache, and seriously, I do get everyone's perception on a show is different and there is totally room for all of them. That does not ease the temptation of writing something where the entire military is kidnapped by a gorgeous alien race of sex addicts, and Rodney and company have to pick up all their slack, perhaps becoming enlightened to the fact that everyone's contributions to the Atlantis expedition are important, not just the ones that don't wear a uniform. Then they say they are sorry for being mean. I am ten years old. I really am.

Then I remember Instructional and twitch hard enough to break my keyboard. Again. *sighs*

Also: Elizabeth slammage and Carson slammage. You know, If I were a serious Elizabeth fangirl? Wow. I’d be very depressed.



And—okay, two of five, I’ll post the next three later, as for some reason, they are giving me work to do.

Strange job. With the working and all.

Comments

[trobadora]

Coming through here via friendsfriends and wanted to say two things:

a) It's a very McKay fandom! I said to a friend only the other day that I wished once, just once the situation were reversed and the other side would have to sit through their favourite character being dissed. So I totally get your retaliatory fantasies. :-) But the real revenge is good fic and meta that doesn't need to slam one character in order to elevate another. So you win!

b) I'm going to friend you now. I've no idea why I haven't already, given how much of your fic I've loved.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

i seem to follow you around today *g*

i'm really beginning to wonder how much of a McKay fandom it is, and how much of a perception it is b/c it was in the beginning...i mean, the fic i've read in the last couple of days? all very wonderful sheppard (like sarah's this morning)

maybe i'm looking for them, but i feel i have way too many people on my flist who think they're alone for us to *erally* be alone...

[lillian78.livejournal.com]

I love John. I find that most of the slamming seems to be because a member of the fandom has their "list" if you will as to how John should react to any given situation. If he doesn't meet their expectations then they're not only disappointed but may be angry enough to "slam" him. I don't get that I really don't. I'm more willing to incorporate both the good and the bad without too much judgement. That's why I've always loved John and probably always will.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I'm just--pretty much okay with how all the characters act in context. I mean, I can see how a person who knows the military or knows medicine or what have you can get frustrated when it's not accurate but--well, luckily? So don't have that problem. So I kind of accept it on results or how it works with the plotline. Yeah.

John *pretty*. That? Also helps.

[stormheller.livejournal.com]

I don't read much meta anymore, so I hadn't realized there was a lot of pro-Rodney/slam-John sentiment around. I did find my own interests changing as I watched the show: come for John Sheppard, stay for Rodney McKay.

It reminds me a lot of Sentinel: evil!Jim fails to see the wonder that is saint!Blair. Or, to a slightly lesser effect, judgemental!Duncan is mean to intriguing!Methos. Perhaps it's a win-sum-game thing--in order for my guy to be great, I have to put down the other guy. (And by "I", I mean other people. ::g::)

In due South, it was much more balanced. Yes, the RayK half of the fandom (as opposed to the RayV half) was certainly skewed towards RayK, but they didn't have to dislike or put down Fraser to do it. So I guess it can be done, just not often or well.

And I keep having the "But I have no problem with Elizabeth" conversation. What's not to like?

~ Stormy

Heh.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I was kind of opposite. I started because Rodney was just so *cool* in some fanfic (and kind of annoyingly obnoxious in others), but watching--hmm, probably Hide and Seek was when I finished a total conversion. Cause wow, John.

I *like* Elizabeth. I just wish she had more eps that revolved around her.

[varadia]

But. But John.

*has no other words*

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*nodnodnod* Pretty. And smart!

[grey-bard.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there's a certain kind of meta I avoid in SGA. I feel like waving a little sign that says "But I like *all* of them!".

[saturnalia.livejournal.com]

*grin*

[abbylee]

I am so equally in love with John and Rodney. I've never fallen like this before, it's very weird. But... they're just each so perfect to watch in their own ways, and of course there's the awesomeness of how they balance out.

Except, there's also something very much about this show that makes it easy for me to wave off all the stupidity written for every character. There's really not someone who I don't love in some way. (Except Kavanaugh, but that's mostly because he badly reminds me of someone I've worked with. The rest? LOVE!) And all of them (even Kavanaugh, see, I can admit it) they just TRY to be good. How can I not love that?

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I'm--fairly close? I enjoy them both too much together when they really get each other worked up. It's so freaking *cool*.

Ahh, ,writing. I'm so zen. Seriously. I've done too much time in sci-fi for any incredibly dumb plot to annoy me. *grins* So far, SGA has been surprisingly consistent in characcterization for episodic TV, so I--reallyl do enjoy them all. Even Ronon, and that took a bit to warm up to. But yeah.

Happy.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Oh, my goodness!

Someone else who loves Mansfield Park! Because, yes, it's only second to P&P, and Fanny is annoying and irritating, but that she can be so stubborn when she's been trained to be so compliant...wow.

And, yeah, Edmund needs to loosen up and Henry has issues (and I sometimes think that if they *had* shared Thornton Lacey one winter, they would have been solved.)

As for SGA - I keep away from those things. I learned my lesson way back in TS days.

Fannie

[seperis.livejournal.com]

God, she is stubborn when her principles are threatened, which is at least part of the reason I don't want to drown her by the end. I can respect that kind of determination to live up to what you believe. Even if, dear God, she does irritate me.

Mmm. Edmund and Henry at Thornton Lacey. Nice.

[20thcenturyvole.livejournal.com]

Oh, man, there are people who seriously hate John? I mean, I suppose he's occasionally scary as shit (The Storm, the Eye, Michael, etc.), but he's a very good character, all meaty and subtextual. I mean, his ability to be charming and engaging without ever revealing a thing about himself is as fascinating as his flashes of geekitude are endearing. What is there to hate about Sheppard?

The Carson slammage is slightly more understandable what with the whole 'medical ethics? What medical ethics?" thing he sometimes has going, but I still defend him fiercely because he is so sweet and woobie. I, um... may have been known to slam Elizabeth. Just a bit. But only in episodes where I think she really, really bites as the leader of this expedition, and in episodes where she is cool, I enjoy her with no venom at all. Promise. *bites lip*

Don't feel too bad about the Clark slammage. After all, I've known planks that could emote better than Tom Welling.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I can see the problems with Carson, kind of? But honestly, not all that much. He's been--questionable. But on a show where one character blew up the better part of a solar system, one character did some mass murder via gate tech, and Elizabeth authorizes experimentation on Wraith...*grins* He *fits*.

Plus, to be honest, a lot of his questionable decisions, I've pretty much agreed with, so....yeah. Carson love. Plus, accent. I mean, I hate to say it, but he gets massive points for accent and colloquialisms.

[luthien.livejournal.com]

I had a bunch of people pimp SGA at me when I was in the US last year. They kept showing me episodes and going "RodneyRodneyRodney" at me. And they plied me with fic. And... okay, I started reading the fic without a very clear idea of the canon. Then, when I got home, I finally got my hands on the pilot, watched it, watched it again... watched it about seven times in three days. And the next time people started going "RodneyRodneyRodney" at me, I was all "YesButJOHN!" And, yeah, I'm still there. *g* I like Rodney, I appreciate Rodney, I'm entertained by Rodney, I have no problem with the concept of David Hewlett being a terrific actor... but I love John.

Ah, and thank you for putting your finger on what it is about Mansfield Park. Most of the time I just want to slap Fanny, but it's not Fanny by herself but the whole of Mansfield Park that makes Mansfield Park.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Yes! Yes! Though I think my turning point was Hide and Seekish, but then again, I watched the entire first season in like, three days. But God. Yes. JOHN JOHN JOHN!

Hee. Mansfield Park is like the pulp fiction of Jane Austen's work. Intrigue! Romance! Adultery! Illness! Nasty aunts!

[cereta.livejournal.com]

Okay, there was much more to that comment than it actually posted. Huh.

I'm seriously at the point of making up a chart for epiusode reviews, for just the reason you mention. I like Rodney, but John is it for me, and while I don't run into a lot of John is so meeeean to Rodney, I do run into some of it. And I seriously have to block out all discussion of Elizabeth, or I just get depressed.

[lydiabell.livejournal.com]

I sometimes wonder whether the people who say, "John is so meeeean to Rodney" have actually watched many guys interact with each other. Because guys, at least the ones I've been friends with, say horrible things to one another. They just do. It's how they *play*.

[cosmic.livejournal.com]

...wait, there are people who slam *Carson*? WTF?! GRR!

I'm with you on the Sheppard-lovin', though. I totally love him (and his hair) the best, even though there are times when I lean Rodneywards. But I generally hate when anyone slams either of them, because, yeah, they're not perfect characters and sometimes they do some pretty messed up things (or destroy part of a solar system), but I never really get the OMG!HATE!!!1one!! for either of them.

(I do sometimes slam Teyla and Elizabeth, which makes me feel like a Bad Female Fan, but then I roll my eyes, read some little Teyla fic that I can enjoin, and get over myself.)

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*nods*

Teyla just--isn't in fic enough for me to appreciate her, though I like her on the show. At least, not often enough. hmm.

[elke-tanzer.livejournal.com]

I'm absolutely adoring John. He's not a perfect character, but all of his facets absolutely fascinate me.

I like McKay, I really do, but... I've spent too much time with too many RL guys who had many of his less attractive features to want to spend the majority of my fannish focus-time with McKay.

I'm kind of glad I haven't stumbled across too much meta that slams any of the characters. Because yeah, I love them all.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*pets John*

I mean, I hate to say, God, pretty, becuase that's not my total motivation for liking him, but--yeah. He's pretty and quiet and so subtextual and body language oriented it takes watching to figure him out sometimes.

Seriously, they all make me happy. Yes.

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

THank you so much for this. I'm a Sheppard fan first and foremost. I've actually become a NON RODNEY FANON fan becaues of the Rodney/DH fans and their slams against Shep and even Joe. The main reason being the hypocrisy. Take any given situation and Rodney acted perfectly was justified etc etc. And a poor woobie who it treated oh so badly by the big bad meanie JOHN! I've even read posts where Rodney fans have dissed JOE for certain scenes on the show that had nothing to do with Shep even.

Erm...going back to my point. What I really hate is that Rodney is perfect but if the role/scene was reversed, Rodney woudl STILL BE RIGHT and Shep would STILL BE WRONG. I hate hate hate that with a passion. Yep.

[unnua.livejournal.com]

Practically all the characters on SGA are bad people. And yet they are so sexy and fun to watch! It's a terrible dilemma.

[ann-tara.livejournal.com]

I've gotten to the point that when the SGA newsletter comes across my flist, I skip all the episode meta because, when I try and read it, I end up more pissed off than not and wondering if I still want to be in this fandom at all.

I'm a Shep!gal through and through, but I like all the other characters too. I don't think there's a one I dislike, which should be a good thing, right?!? At one time I would have said McKay was my very close second favorite character, but the Rodney!centrism of the fandom has finally started turning me off this character a little more every week, which is another reason I have to stop reading the meta, otherwise I'll end up actively hating him in no time. And I don't want to hate him if for no other reason than it would be almost impossible to watch the show at all if you hate the guy who gets all the screen time (which is a problem I have with the show's writers, but that's another rant). But, also, I just don't want to hate any of the characters since generally I like them all (yes, including Elizabeth who I think should get more screen time than she does).

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, I thought I had posted this and forgot. I totally agree with your thoughts. I don't want to hate Rodney because I do like him, but I like John just a little more. The Rodney obssession seems to be equaling if not greater than the Daniel Jackson obssesion of sg-1.

:)SGLAB

[elandrialore.livejournal.com]

I'm glad that I didn't know that people didn't like John. I mean, yeah, I have my own, "Oh God, how could you be so *stupid*" moments, but I usually have them about everyone in the show, not just one person.

And while I may completely love Rodney in all his wonderful eccentricities, I adore all that is John too. I mean, he's *John*.

[nymphaea1.livejournal.com]

The thing is, I owe like, massive apologies to every Clark person out there from SV.

Heh. I was a Clark person from SV. I think, though, that was out of sheer contrariness more than anything, because it wasn't like, when watching the show, that I couldn't get why people hated him. It was just, for me, fanon Lex became so perfect and canonized that it wasn't that I didn't recognize him so much as I was bored by him. And since Clark was the one in all the stories who was screwing up and who was struggling, I was ultimately just a lot more interested in him.

It did, however, lead to years of me having a sort of very passive aggressive/rage filled experience with fandom and it made me quite leary of entering SGA when I am way more interested in Sheppard than Rodney and so much of the meta and the Sheppard characterizations make me extraordinarily cranky.

I think, though, that having been a Clark fan for so long has actually been a good thing because I did pretty much have to realize that I am in charge of my own fannish existance and no one owes me a "rational" (as I see it because of course my logic is better than every one else's) discussion of characters/episodes. Which basically means that there are like a dozen, maybe, journals that I read regularly. And now instead of getting into a serious hours-long rage when I read, say, a story where Sheppard is assumed to be a homophobe just because he's American and in the military, I can simply be extraordinarily peeved for about a minute and then hit the back-button. The back-button has become my very good friend.

And that system is working for me. SGA is my happy place. If I'm reading like one story a week instead of a dozen like I did back in SV, so be it. I'm happier that way and the fillings in my teeth are happier also. And the advantage of this fandom being so huge is that pretty much anyone can find at least a few outstanding authors who share their POV, so I'm happy.

I don't really think sorting through meta for those whose views don't actively annoy you is hypocritical. Fandom is supposed to be cheesecake, not spinach.

That said, if you do end up that "military kidnapped by beautiful space aliens" story. I will totally read it. Especially if Sheppard gets to have sex with at least two Ascended women and doesn't feel bad about it at all. If you were an Ascended woman and could float through the galaxy and sleep with anyone you wanted, wouldn't you sleep with John Sheppard? I'm surprised frankly that there aren't more of them lining up outside his door.

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

Hee! Yeah, it's pretty much true. To me, Rodney holds his own and I don't see him as a poor, blighted flower wasting away in the shadow of a taller poppy, but that's not everyone's perception.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*falls over laughing*

Oh God, the image. The *image*.

[princealia.livejournal.com]

I hear you, too. I understand people have a difference of opinion and hell, you just may not *like* everyone on the show. There's not a rule that says "OMFG PLEZ LEIK DEM!!" Nor is there a rule that says "You can't post a meta saying you don't like this character." It's life.
My favorite character is Teyla and just saying her name makes people gag and go into a "She's so wooden! She's annoying! I hate her!" rant, so trust me when I say I understand. I haven't seen as much John or Joe hate as I've seen John as a manwhore hate. I can't think of a character who I haven't seen hate posts or comments for (even Carson which surprised the hell out of me. He's so snuggly!!) I see the girls get it the most, though, which makes me love them even more. They cause controversy and that's what a character should do. I love *everyone* for all their goods AND bads. I'd be deathly afraid if I didn't find something wrong with these characters because then they wouldnt' be a character, you know? They'd be robots. That's part of why I love this show because one minute a character can get on my *last* nerve, but then turn around and make me love them.
Sometimes what the fandom says about a character and what I see on the screen is two totally different things, so I tend to listen but not necessarily take in. If I did, John would be a raging psycho on the verge of killing everyone on the base, Elizabeth would be sitting at her desk crying all day because she made a decision based on her emotions, Rodney's only flaw is he is sarcastic as hell, Carson would be disobeying every rule in the medical book for the hell of it, and Teyla and Ronon would be too busy screwing each other since they do nothing else and contribute nothing to this show. Yeah, I'm not seeing that on my tv at all.

[carson-leigh.livejournal.com]

Aww, I love John so much. He's my favorite character by far. I actually love them all but John's my favorite. I'm glad that I don't read any of these meta posts because dissing John would piss me off. Rodney's fun and all but he's far from perfect just like everyone else.

[mad-jaks.livejournal.com]

I so didn't get the Rodney love when I first read Atlantis fic as - well you know - SG1 Rodney *squirms*

I am glad I am unaware of John bashing. How can anyone be mean to someone who looks like this?

(http://photobucket.com)

It's...it's... like kicking a puppy.

[svmadelyn.livejournal.com]

It's...it's... like kicking a puppy.

That is just so *true*.

[out-there.livejournal.com]

I came and stayed because of Rodney. I am a Rodney fan first and foremost because not only does he make me laugh but he's also one of those characters who... reflects my inner-flaws, if you will. I *get* Rodney in a way that I don't get John.

John, to me, is like... he's like Nate from Six Feet Under. He's not my favourite, he's not the one I instantly *get*, not the one I drool over, not the one I personify with, but I love the guy. I don't want to see him hurt. I don't want to see him suffer. I occasionally want to go out and beat up everyone who's ever made him frown.

But he'll never take that favourite place for me.

As for Elizabeth, I try to like her. I rationalise a lot of her decisions and frankly, don't find her as much of a horrible leader as others do. Staying with fannish friends, I had people point out how terrible she was, how she lacked any and all tact/compassion/diplomacy for yelling at Rodney after Trinity (in her office, admittedly with the door open). I love Rodney and he's my fave, but firstly he did something monumentally ego-driven and selfish, and secondly, he should be prepared to take what he dishes out. If he insults other people in public, I don't see any reason why he should be coddled and protected.

But when it comes to character dislike, I've developed a new pet theory. This is that every character acts badly according to their position. None of them -- not one -- can do their job *well* and make the right decisions all the time. Hence, dislike comes down to what you're aware of and what your expectations are. If you know military conduct/rules/environments, John will drive you batty for all the ways he *isn't* a good military leader. If you know scientist and very bright, ego-driven people, McKay will annoy you for all the ways his flaws are not endearing, not easy to live with, not at all charming in the real world. Likewise with doctors (re Carson) and good/bad managers (re Elizabeth).

I think all the characters are inherently likeable as long as you assume that they weren't sent to Atlantis because they were the best possible people for the mission. They were sent because it was likely to be a one-way trip, and if they didn't return, these are teh people SGC could spare without losing anything too important. *g*

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Sheppard fan here, too. *g*

You know, If I were a serious Elizabeth fangirl? Wow. I’d be very depressed.

Man, it's pretty depressing even for this lightweight Elizabeth fangirl...

[vylit.livejournal.com]

John is so my favorite and I find myself avoiding a lot of meta about SGA, because people dislike him for a lot of the reasons I love him, and they see his character in such a different light that I can't even begin to show them why he's amazing.

God help me if I have to read one more John Is An Idiot post.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*twitchtwitch*

Yes. I--yes. Those. Yes.

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to pop back in about the Clark/SV thing. I was a DOG WITH A BONE CLark lover for the first 2 1/2 years of SV. By the end of season 3 the show made me LOATHE Clark and root for Lex. I still feel that way. And Tom Welling showed some promise but now? Kristen Kreuk can out emote him. Tis sad.