well, that was irritating

Right. Small rant.



SPOILERS IN CASE YOU MISSED THE CUT TAG FOR TORCHWOOD.

You know, I have tried to figure out how to frame this without coming off as entitled, then I stopped.

So thanks to wank-report and a surprising number of uncut entries, I knew the plot before five finished airing. I--have never ever had feelings on mood spoilers. I'm kind of revising that opinion en toto. Because the thing is? OMG IANTO! followed by THIS IS HORRIBLE above a cut tag is a goddamn spoiler. You are not being subtle or non-spoilery. There was enough on my flist uncut alone that I knew or could guess all the major plot points before five finished airing no matter how many vague words were used, which I suspect was the point. I'm not even sure half of what I saw could classify as a mood spoiler, and it's not like I don't know how to avoid spoilers--this was my flist and at least two places where someone leaped and screamed without a spoiler warning at all in an unrelated post.

I am not crying into my Dr. Pepper or anything about my fannish experience being ruined, but seriously. Your journal, your rules. That doesn't make it any less frustrating, tbh, and a little disappointing. This isn't a show I can watch in real time to keep up, so it's not like I'm asking for a year and a day to get around to it at my leisure. I'm watching as quickly as I can during a workweek where I depend on downloads that occur after ten o'clock at night and varying download speeds.

I get this was a huge sacred cow of sacredness being shot and fandom got hit unexpectedly by that. Fine. Everyone is entitled to not-cut anything they want. I am entitled to be unhappy that I can tell you the entire plotline by uncut mood spoilers.



You can ignore this. This is possibly why I made sure I got the Harry Potter books the day they were released.

Comments

[suzvoy.livejournal.com]

I completely agree.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I cannot believe I had to rant about mood spoilers. I totally am feeling snowflakey today, srsly.

*hugs* Also, you cut regularly. Thank you.

[merkuria.livejournal.com]

I have been extremely irritated by that as well, and I simply agree with you.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I felt so bratty on Thursday when I started seriously hating people for lacking simple courtesy.

[tygress.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Between that, and people who are SO incredibly mouthy on twitter, totally pretty much spoiled it for me, even before I could get the thing downloaded, which... considering I'd been avidly avoiding spoilers for months about the whole season? Meh.

Still, pretty sure a cut is appropriate anytime you're using capslock. :)

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I am so glad I stayed off Twitter.

Yeah, and me too. I had just the trailers. I avoided the interviews, FFS.

[amireal.livejournal.com]

I was lucky enough that my week allowed me to watch the episodes in such a way that I didn't get spoiled. That said, I was still offended by some of what I read above the cut.

It's been getting worse for a while now, I'm pretty sure I know what happened on Heroes too.

edit: that's not to say someone died or didn't die (that I don't know, though really, HEROES.) Just meant plot in general.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Yes, this.

[miss-tress.livejournal.com]

*nods* I haven't watched more than the first season of Torchwood yet and I could tell you what happened this week solely from reading the outside of posts that have cut tags for spoilers in them.

One of the worst was somebody saying they weren't going to say what happened because they don't want to spoil anybody and then proceeding to compare what Russel T Davies did on show this week to what Joss Whedon does on his shows. It was like someone had turned on a neon sign saying exactly what happens.

[suaine.livejournal.com]

compare what Russel T Davies did on show this week to what Joss Whedon does on his shows.

Oh dear, that is pretty damn special.

[zelda-zee.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on this. There were spoilers all over my flist, and I'm not used to seeing that. Usually people on my flist are more circumspect. It was disappointing.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*nods* It was. I've never had that problem on my flist before.

[chaneen.livejournal.com]

I don't even watch Torchwood, and I couldn't agree with you more. I'm also not one to bitch about mood spoilers, but when your "mood" and things you leave outside of a cut make it obvious what happened in an episode of a show/in a book/whatever, you're doing it wrong.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

That is like, the defining sentence for this. I mean, srsly.

[transtempts.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I mean, I've posted Torchwood OMG, WTF?! but that's sort of a normal reaction (from me, mostly). And you know, therefore not a spoiler.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

No, yours wasn't. Trust me, the ones that were "mood spoilers" that I saw were--well. Way different.

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

This total and complete spoiler fail w/ torchood pissed me off to no end. Not posting spoilers isn't a silly coy fucking game where you follow the letter and not teh spirit. IT's about not telegraphing or hinting the fucking outcome of a show. Period. If you grok that concept, the mood shit is obvious. If not... yeah.

IMHO, if you have to ask yourself "is X a spoiler?" or if you say "Oh, but X isn't really a spoiler," chances are the answer is "Yes," and "You're wrong."

What some inconsiderate douchebags don't GET or don't care to get is that cutting for spoilers isn't about their special snowflake definition of what isn't a spoiler, it's about giving people the OPTION to spoil or not.

Gah.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

This, this, this. This times ten.

[randommagic.livejournal.com]

I was watching as it aired, and I stopped reading *anything* after I clicked on two posts that both warned for spoilers for day three, and then talked, in vague terms, about what happened in days four and five. (Apparently some big vendor in the UK sent the DVDs out early). I didn't feel I could complain because they were vague, but still I could pretty much guess what was going to happen. I was quite disappointed, because I'd managed to remain completely unspoiled til then.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*shudders* That must have sucked.

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

Also, "Your journal, your rules." is something I somewhat agree with, but also, if "your rules" mean your definition of spoilers SUCKS, I'm going to have to decide to defriend, possibly, because if you do it something that, technically, I didn't care whether I was spoiled about, chances are, I can't trust you when it comes to shit I do care about, and I never know when any one flister will drift into a new fandom like that.

OH AND ANOTHER THING, you know what? No. I don't 100% agree with "your journal your rules". I can't tell anyone how to act in their journal (though I can bitch about their behavior), but what you post outside a cut is NOT 100% your space. It's partially your space, partially PUBLIC. Kind of like the front porch of your house.

If you feel like having sex on the front porch of your house, and I'm like O_o, could you please do that somewhere I can't see it, kthxbye, and you're like "screw you, this is my property, I'll do what I damn well please here" ... you're wrong. Technically you're right, but no. You're doing it in public view, where people can't avoid seeing it, so it's in part public space. And that goes for spoiler cuts (er, in front of windows w/ open curtains, perhaps?) and mood spoilers.

I'm on the spoiler cutting nazi side of the fence, usually, and as much as the TWspoiler!fail was unfortunate, part of me is a little glad that (according to a lot of reactions like yours and elsewhere) some people who never really understood "mood spoilers" before get it now and will be more considerate going forward.

I don't think that mood spoilers are a forever and ever thing, but dude, I saw some of those posts immediately after airing... at the VERY least, give a 24 hour (I personally prefer 1 week) head start to those of us who care, so we can track down/obtain/watch our Tivo unspoiled.)

ETA: "it's not like I don't know how to avoid spoilers"

You can know how to avoid spoilers all you want, but if douchebags put spoilers uncut or in the cut (or coy ass "hints" which, I'm sorry, your hint plus his hint plus me having a fucking brain = spoiler), the option to avoid spoilers is STOLEN from you. And you CAN'T UNSPOIL YOURSELF. You can always choose to spoil, choose to click through and seek out, but you can't unknow. It's uneven, and it's unfair, and it's not like any of us spoiler nazis begrudge spoiler fans getting spoilers or discussing WHATEVER THEY WANT at all. FOR A SECOND.

We just want the option to not click through, and that includes not having Subtle Hints and emotional reactions thrust down our throats uncut.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

You kind of are saying everything I wish I could have.

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Grr! As far as I'm concerned there shouldn't be a single, solitary word about an episode (particularly one that hasn't even aired in the US yet) above a well-marked cut-tag, including the journal mood. People should be allowed to be as little or as much spoiled as they'd like. I know for certain shows I don't even want to see a "WTF" or an "OMG."

[suaine.livejournal.com]

(particularly one that hasn't even aired in the US yet)

Uhm, actually, how about especially those that have only aired in the US? I mean, personally I really don't care, but I have to get all my shows the download way and most of those shows are released in the US first. It just sounds a bit US-centric.

[suaine.livejournal.com]

Man, just being on Twitter after ep 4 pretty much made sure you were spoiled. Twitter. It boggles the mind.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I believe it.

[eleveninches.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I knew Ianto died and I haven't even watched the damn thing, thanks to a comment thread of a (political, non-fandom!!!) community post.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I fell on top of another one in an unrelated post somewhere in journalfen. It was surreal.

...political? *dies*

[shinetheway.livejournal.com]

As someone who did exactly what you're describing, well, yeah. Mea culpa. [hangs head] I'm really sorry, honey. You're right, mood spoilers are still spoilers, and when I wrote my "omg!" post, I didn't think it through enough.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Babe, you were like, days after some of them.

[geeklite.livejournal.com]

I have had several vitriolic exchanges with people who've taken offense at my claiming that even the simplest of exclamations coupled with a mood can be spoilery for something. Now I have the perfect example should it ever come up again.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Srsly. I feel like screencapping some of it when it comes up again and show what people mean when they say mood spoilers are still spoilers.

[withlightning.livejournal.com]

It was spoiled for me after episode three, there was a lot of spoilers going around and they turned out to be true, for people getting their DVD sets way too early in UK and of course needing to gush about it and it all falls apart rapidly. My flist warned pretty nicely when there was spoilers, except for the whole mood spoilers. There is a difference between "OMG" and "F*cking hell!" or "No way!". And then the stupid bouncing stars and smileys.
I hear you.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Yes, this. I found out at work right after the live airing of episode four while I was skimming my flist. I was--grumpy, to say the least.

[kickair8p.livejournal.com]

I've downloaded but haven't seen TW:CoE yet, but I was deliberately courting spoilers (I usually do that -- it lessens the emotional impact for me). Thing is, that's my choice -- people trying to stay unspoiled should be able to do so. I get how kicked-in-the-gut people feel over this, but a little more care would've been good.

~

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*nods* See, I probably would have tentatively checked a few trusted friends' reactions, but this was like, just tossed out while I was casually reading at work. And got progressively worse. Gah.

[fadagaski.livejournal.com]

You know it's bad when even *I* know what's going to happen in the show, and I don't watch it - nor have the slightest clue who Ianto is before anything happened to him.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Srsly. I have a couple of friends who have no idea what Torchwood is and they knew the plot. It was surreal.

[sarashina-nikki.livejournal.com]

Yes. I watched episode 4 less than 24 hours after it had aired (had to wait for it to DL first!) and I already knew exactly what had happened only from mood spoilers. People crying and saying "I don't know how fandom can come back from that" and "they just took out half their fanbase" and "there's no way they can fix that in the last episode" --> I knew %100 that Ianto was dead. (All paraphrased from the actual mood spoilers that appeared on my own flist) It was entirely obvious.

Luckily, I'm not emotionally invested in Torchwood so I didn't care. But if this had been a show I really loved? Raaaage. Lots of rage.

[apetslife.livejournal.com]

I actually posted almost this EXACT SAME THING (http://apetslife.livejournal.com/1703392.html#cutid1) last night. I'm probably not even going to watch the miniseries now (the jury's still out on whether this is a good or bad thing, as I'm one of those people who lives for happy endings and hopeful futures and cannot handle much else when it comes to characters I love). But regardless, it could have been something I really really wanted to see, but I was spoiled six ways from Sunday.

I used to think that 'mood spoilers' were the silliest idea ever, and I still kinda do in some cases (for example, a single word, or just a mood on the post, or whatever, I still don't think of that as spoilery, and I do take responsibility for my own spoilage: if I were a true spoilerphobe, I would stay off the internet or LJ until I could see show). But this was just ridiculous. I don't know if it was the quantity of the posts, or the level of emotion involved, or who knows, but I've never seen so many spoilery cut-tags in my life.

As I said in the post, I don't want to be That Girl Who Complains About Spoilers, but the pairing of an "OH GOD IANTO NO" cut-text with the 'crying' mood and the icon of a funeral/headstone (not actually a real post as far as I know, just an amalgam of things I've seen here and there) is kind of a dead giveaway. No pun intended.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

As I said in the post, I don't want to be That Girl Who Complains About Spoilers, but the pairing of an "OH GOD IANTO NO" cut-text with the 'crying' mood and the icon of a funeral/headstone (not actually a real post as far as I know, just an amalgam of things I've seen here and there) is kind of a dead giveaway. No pun intended.

Srsly, the way some of them were framed wasn't that far from that.

[lost2mercy.livejournal.com]

Seconded. I was pissed off on Thursday.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was still at work when it started. I mean--really. What the hell?

[incapricious.livejournal.com]

Word.

I think I still am going to watch it, and I knew the rumor of what was going to happen already, but... I would definitely prefer it if people were better about not putting ANY reaction outside the cut, and that includes subject, cut text, icon, and mood. I was pretty surprised at how many people didn't do that. And annoyed, yes.

Twitter I was less surprised about, because Twitter is always spoilery for everything. I don't like that aspect of it, but I am not sure how to change it. I mean, I can't really, other than not using it. Hmm.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*nods* Normally, mood at best has been an indicator of the feel of the show or something and so subjective. But man, people took that to a new and exciting level this week. Just--wow.

[thecomfychair.livejournal.com]

I agree. If I hadn't gotten spoiled on freaking Twitter, my flist (whom I love but really) would have.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I figured Twitter would go there, but srsly, my flist? It's not like I was trolling the net on this one. Just--wtf people?

[pacalissanctum.livejournal.com]

You said that way better than I did. I was only able to marshal this (http://pacalissanctum.livejournal.com/925133.html) this in response to fandom spoiling.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

HA! I was at that place. I had to rewrite it twice.