![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Thursday, July 10th, 2008 10:03 am
period of activity
I am ridiculously irritable right now, which is partially high level sleep deprivation, as I am an idiot, and partially stewing--I kid you not--over Dr. Who finale reviews. Part of this is I keep reading them, even when the subject line says it will not be my cup of tea, and part of it is vague unformed anticipation of a new SGA season, and a bit of it is I somehow, while randomly reading through Due South recs, managed to hit three deathfic, and a dead puppy fic one after another because I kept forgetting to check the warnings. I can't even work out the odds on managing that.
Dead puppy!
Then Madelyn pasted some traumatizing Jack/Ianto that helped clear my mind of omg dead puppy! and went to oh my God, someone *wrote* that? Why? which was zen inducing because I cannot deal with dead puppies (puppy!) but terrifying Torchwood porn is a-okay.
Short and vaguely grumpy, below cut, Dr. Who spoilers, Rose specific:
Rose. Here's the thing.
I think it says fairly awesome things about Rose's character development from the time she met the Doctor, when her two choices post-Doctor are a.) eat ice cream, watch television, cry for a bit over the man she loved and is effectively dead to her, as people do when they fall in love and then lose it, or b.) wake up and think, huh. You know, I can get a dimensional cannon and fetch the bloke myself. Let's see how to go about that. And maybe help save the universe on the side.
There is no universe where that it is not awesome.
I kind of have the same reaction to Ianto, though his situation has that side effect of horrific death and destruction, the significant other in question being, you know, evil cyberperson, but you really have to be impressed when anyone stands up, pushes back the ice cream, and says, the situation as stands sucks. Now how can I improve this? And does a really good job doing it. If she had not been evil, this would have worked out very well. Sadly, evil. But Ianto, awesome.
Supernatural--do I even need to *list* the frankly obscure and terrifying ways Dean and Sam have gone about trying to stay together and avoid being separated from/death of the other person? That's like, every episode.
I am not getting this. I get people just not liking her all that much and never have--that's character preference and I have some problems with Donna (though not huge ones). But I get frustrated when strength of character is used as a blunt force instrument on a female character. Some people want medical careers and some people want babies and some people want, I don't know, to live on a mountain and eat fish all day. None of these things necessarily have anything to do with strength of character; they're life decisions that strength of character helps people find a way to achieve to their satisfaction.
Okay, now that is done. I am still not sleepy. And now I am remembering dead puppy fic. Gah. Puppy. And hopefully, will see Nephew today. Pictures are promising.
Dead puppy!
Then Madelyn pasted some traumatizing Jack/Ianto that helped clear my mind of omg dead puppy! and went to oh my God, someone *wrote* that? Why? which was zen inducing because I cannot deal with dead puppies (puppy!) but terrifying Torchwood porn is a-okay.
Short and vaguely grumpy, below cut, Dr. Who spoilers, Rose specific:
Rose. Here's the thing.
I think it says fairly awesome things about Rose's character development from the time she met the Doctor, when her two choices post-Doctor are a.) eat ice cream, watch television, cry for a bit over the man she loved and is effectively dead to her, as people do when they fall in love and then lose it, or b.) wake up and think, huh. You know, I can get a dimensional cannon and fetch the bloke myself. Let's see how to go about that. And maybe help save the universe on the side.
There is no universe where that it is not awesome.
I kind of have the same reaction to Ianto, though his situation has that side effect of horrific death and destruction, the significant other in question being, you know, evil cyberperson, but you really have to be impressed when anyone stands up, pushes back the ice cream, and says, the situation as stands sucks. Now how can I improve this? And does a really good job doing it. If she had not been evil, this would have worked out very well. Sadly, evil. But Ianto, awesome.
Supernatural--do I even need to *list* the frankly obscure and terrifying ways Dean and Sam have gone about trying to stay together and avoid being separated from/death of the other person? That's like, every episode.
I am not getting this. I get people just not liking her all that much and never have--that's character preference and I have some problems with Donna (though not huge ones). But I get frustrated when strength of character is used as a blunt force instrument on a female character. Some people want medical careers and some people want babies and some people want, I don't know, to live on a mountain and eat fish all day. None of these things necessarily have anything to do with strength of character; they're life decisions that strength of character helps people find a way to achieve to their satisfaction.
Okay, now that is done. I am still not sleepy. And now I am remembering dead puppy fic. Gah. Puppy. And hopefully, will see Nephew today. Pictures are promising.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:Also, opening this one to ease my girlpain now. Thank you.
(- reply to this
- parent
- thread
- top thread
- expand
- link
)
(no subject)
From:no subject
From:(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- thread
- top thread
- expand
- link
)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
From:I wish more people would get this. It's not just in stories, either, it comes up again and again in real life. I tell people I want a couple years of awesome single shenanigans and then I want a family and they look at me like I've just grown two heads. Just because I want to be a mom rather than have a high-paying career doesn't mean I want to be a fifties housewife, for pete's sake.
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:Living a life that makes you happy is the *point* of living. How this escapes people is bewildering.
(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:Well, yeah, that's what I took Turn Left to be all about - there's one universe where Donna doesn't have the strength of character to stand up to her mother, and another one where she respects her self worth and does what's right for her.
Sadly, while Rose's strength of character has turned into her popping up with a sexy Big Fucking Gun and a dimensional cannon, Donna's is mainly shown through shouting.
Of all the things I liked about Donna, I think my favorite was how emphatic she was about not being romantically interested in the doctor. It was a great choice and played out very well (IMO).
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:So it was very--confusing with her.
(- reply to this
- parent
- thread
- top thread
- expand
- link
)
(no subject)
From:no subject
From:(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:EXACTLY.
This is exactly why I was sort of hoping for Rose to maybe clarify when Martha was all, "Whoa, he finally found you" that, actually, she finally found him, since it's true and also AWESOME, but, you know.
That's fine. I could have lived with it.
But now there are all of these haters refusing to swallow their hatecake and bashing on her entire character for reasons I can't even properly think about without exploding in indignation, and just, yeah.
This kind of got away with me. Sorry.
(- reply to this
- thread
- expand
- link
)
no subject
From:But now there are all of these haters refusing to swallow their hatecake and bashing on her entire character for reasons I can't even properly think about without exploding in indignation, and just, yeah.
God, I *know*. Exactly.
(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
From:WORD.
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- thread
- top thread
- expand
- link
)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
From:Yes! Yes! a thousand times YES!!! I love what you had to say about Rose and yeah I've seen some negative posts about her being "selfish" but I don't see it that way at all. I loved that she didn't spend forever crying about the man she loved and lost and instead did something about it to find him again and in the process saved the universe. (truly without Rose going between dimensions she'd never have been there to help Donna in Turn Left)
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:And then, helping save the universe as icing.
(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:And even more shocking, Dr. Who is just a freaking television show!
Okay, that's overboard, but you know what I mean. I've had stories haunt me, most notably a SW/TPM story years and years back where the author burned my guys at the stake and did it in the most horrible way possible, and just typing that little brings back to many memories.
It's why I never write or read angst. Too difficult.
Hey, I just remembered, I wrote a cracked-out crossover, SGA/Dr. Who, for the Constrict 'zine (you really should come to Constrict, you know). Would silliness help in the sleep-deprived-grumpiness-grouch arena?
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:...oh my GOD. Just reading that is trauma by proxy.
Hey, I just remembered, I wrote a cracked-out crossover, SGA/Dr. Who, for the Constrict 'zine (you really should come to Constrict, you know). Would silliness help in the sleep-deprived-grumpiness-grouch arena?
Yes. *raises chin hopefully* Yes, it would. With the promise of feedback.
(- reply to this
- parent
- thread
- top thread
- expand
- link
)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
From:EXACTLY. Because while some of would still be in the vacation-from-hygiene, listening to country music (the music of pain), devouring Ben & Jerry's and generally wallowing in self-pity...Rose went right the hell off and rescued herself. And her man. And also, hey!, the entire universe. (And while she was at it, she got a super hot leather jacket and bigass gun.) There is no part of that that isn't awesome. None.
(- reply to this
- thread
- expand
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
(no subject)
From:no subject
From:(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:And you know what? IT WAS NOT OKAY.
I want Handy back. He was the best puppy.
(- reply to this
- parent
- thread
- top thread
- expand
- link
)
(no subject)
From:no subject
From:I have never wanted a husband. I have never wanted children. But I don't get how anyone could see Rose's actions as weak. Coming down on someone who is doing everything in her power to get back to someone she loves and who *loves her* (it's not like they had some kind of "it's not you, it's me" break-up; it was more like "it's not you, it's the OVERPOWERING, SOUL-SUCKING VOID")... what is the problem with that? How is that somehow a bad thing, to try to get back to a lover you've been separated from? Why does that make you pathetic? This whole "Oh, Rose needs to move on; oh, she's co-dependent; oh, how lame that all she can think about is the Doctor"--dudes, she's been working at Torchwood and saving the universe. It's not like *all* she's done is come up with a way to get back to him.
GAAAAAH.
*clings to you*
(- reply to this
- thread
- expand
- link
)
no subject
From:I swear, every time I read about that, I just don't get it.
(- reply to this
- parent
- thread
- top thread
- expand
- link
)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
From:And it's not even like I think canon is telling us she wants nothing more than three fat babies and a man (though what would be wrong with that?); I think she loved the life she had with him as much as she loved him. She was fighting for that, too, for the impossible adventure, and OMG, people, do not make me beat you to death.
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:I'm still deeply stuck in Torchwood + Timebabies + Ten + Rose == hilarity. It's just the most charming thought ever.
(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:This really reminded me of something that happened in school. I think I was 15/16 and my english teacher had this tendency of using whatever text we were studying to talk about life, the universe and everything. They were always pretty cool classes. Anyway one day she was asking what we all wanted to do 'when we grew up' and one girl said she wanted to get married and be a housewife. This was in the nineties in an all girls school and she was an intelligent girl and a high achiever as far as school went. The reaction was strong from the class as you can imagine but she stood her ground and said 'No, that's what I want' and it stuck with me. I admired her for that. For knowing what she wanted an not letting other peoples opinions sway her.
Being kick-ass is not only about being able to fight the bad guys but is about have a strength of conviction to your own beliefs, whether that be about your family, your partner, your cyber girlfriend or your dimensional cannon.
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:I boggle at how it could be read any other way?
(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- thread
- top thread
- expand
- link
)
(no subject)
From:no subject
From:Sigh.
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(Yeah, I might be a little sleep deprived. That's what I've got in lieu of coherent reaction. But yeah. FTW.)
Everybody has their favorites and those they can't stand. But I just don't get the dislike for either character. Being stranded in another dimension aside, Rose is the kind of girl I'd want to be: brave, adventurous, girly, smart and big hearted. What's not to love?
And Ianto? Well, he can measure your inseam by your stride across the threshold. How is that not win?
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- thread
- expand
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
(no subject)
From:no subject
From:Okay, I am disgruntled with the Dr. Who finale but for TOTALLY different reasons, WTF people?? (Mainly, I feel like Rose got shoved off with a slightly more sophisticated version of a Time Lord blow-up doll and Donna got shafted.) But dude, ROSE KICKED ASS AND SAVED THE FREAKIN' UNIVERSE. I... gah. RRAR.
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:Donna--I'm ambivalent abotu it. I don't like it, because she lost the memories. OTOH--it bothers me that she would have based her worth on having a Timelord mind instead of being aware of her awesome without it. So--torn, yes.
(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:Heh. I hadn't thought of it that way, but I agree on both counts. Now, I don't love Rose as utterly and deeply as I do Donna -- while it's frightening, Donna is me in so many ways -- but I still loved her, loved seeing her, loved her getting her happy ending.
And phooey to all those whining about it. (She says, after posting her own post-ep reaction of whining.)
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:What made me want to smash my head against the desk repeatedly was the way the Doctor once again chose her fate for her, Rose didn't get a choice. Then again, this is the Doctor we are talking about, and when it comes down to it he isn't human, and sometime his kindness is worse than his rage.
Donna - well, Donna is a whole can of worms that I don't want to open up because I may possibly start screaming in rage again. Living without the Time Lord memories I can deal with, I think, I think it is the fact that once again the Doctor did what he thought was best for Donna. And he may be completely right, but once again there goes the choice.
Amnesia is one of those tricky story-plot points, when used right ala-Bourne Identity it is awesome, when used for the reason of 'helping' someone because their mind can't handle it. That gets to me, it is a very personal pet peeve because psychology tells me that an individual is only an individual because of their unique perceptionn of the world, that is, all their experience makes them who they are. By taking away someone memories it is pretty much creating a whole new person. They may as well killed the person and created a new character because this person with no memory of who they are is not the person that went through all the experience and as a consequence changed because of them.
So, in short, I can't accept that Donna will be awesome again, because it was the experience with the Doctor, and then it was her experience with Rose in alt!verse that made her brilliant. With no memories of either existence I can't see how she can fulfill her potential. Therefore, it is insane rage on my part when it comes to the way they handled Donna. This rage may change in the future if they actually say something about her changing and fulfilling her greatness. As it is the last image I have of Donna is her on the phone with a friend and no hint of her at all becoming the Best Temp in the Universe.
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- top thread
- link
)
no subject
From:Of course, part of the problem is that Rusty waffles madly in subtext vs. follow-through, and then lies his fool head off in interviews and Confidentials, so that s2 was all about Rose being in frantic denial while the Doctor dropped a few anvils on her about eventually leaving him and then gave up on the subject until he found a convenient alternate universe to chuck her into -- and yet somehow we get Rose's POV of how she "died" because she lost the presumed love of her life (and then went on to live a fantastic life as Defender of the Earth that Rusty decided not to even hint at onscreen after all because he thought it detracted from the romance to let viewers go away not thinking that the armwarmers were to cover up the marks on her arms from all the cutting she's been doing and that she killed herself five minutes after the Doctor's projection blinked out). And then she rips holes in the universe to get back the man who was trying to ditch her, and he chucks a spare clone of himself at her in the hopes that she'll quit stalking him and go away. The End.
(- reply to this
- thread
- link
)
no subject
From:(- reply to this
- parent
- thread
- top thread
- expand
- link
)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From: