sgareview 4.20 - the last man

Question for The Last Man - I have read no other entries and I have no clue, but.



I cannot explain my sheer glee if Stargate writers managed to utterly and completely throw me by making the hologram of Dr. McKay a fucking Michael plant. Oh my God. That is so cool! THAT IS THE MOST AWESOME THING IN THE HISTORY OF AWESOME. THAT IS TOTALLY OH MY GOD. AND MCKAY ALL NO CAN'T USE GATE! NO IDEA IF SAFE! OF COURSE NOT. IT IS NOT SAFE BECAUSE THAT IS NOT ATLANTIS. And using Rodney! Who of course John would trust without question! And etcetera! TELL ME THIS IS POSSIBLE.

That would explain Holo!McKay's a.) hair (as I know male pattern baldness) b.) intimate knowledge of how Ronon and Sam and the Wraith queen died and c.) make me slightly less annoyed that if Jennifer hadn't had died, John would be starving to death 48,000 years in the future. Because seriously. Also--Carson. In that stasis pod. d.) sweater vests. Oh my God, that was a sweater vest and I never really cried for Rodney's taste in clothing before, but I am now. A lot.

Give me odds, people. Unspoiled odds. Because a.) that history was annoying (though Rodney and Keller! Cute! So cute! But I still wince for non-existent Ronon/Keller) and b.) everyone conveniently died? Just--poof? Everyone? Seriously? One at a time?

Oh wow. I like this possibility. I do. A lot. For many reasons stated above, but also because Stargate rarely ever impresses me and this is impressive.

Oh my God. I want. WANT WANT WANT. PLZ LET IT BE TRUE. Otherwise, I will damn well write it myself, because the concept is too awesome for words.

Comments

[september1967.livejournal.com]

Do you really think its Rock falls, everyone dies? I didn't think it was a Michael plot but that certainly makes sense.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

It looks like that, doesn't it? The only survivors are Rodney and Lorne? That's it? And everyone died dramatically but you can fix it! If you just come back and save Teyla!

Yes, it's too--neat.

[amireal.livejournal.com]

I-- hmm-- I would like if it were a michaelplant, to have it of been altered after the fact. I want some of that to be true.

And-- I do not give the writers that much credit. I know nothing mind you, I just don't see it.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Well, the thing is. And this is why I tend to go with this--it was a trap. There was no past-jump, just John tossed onto another planet. Because that future was the Michasel awesome future and Michael is totally the type to set that type of thing up.

Also, I don't know why it bothers me, but--seriously. That was way too pat for me. Just enough challenge not to be too easy, but not enough challenge, like, say, last minute problem with the thing--just boom. John comes out, goes home, save Teyla! And fails.

It's just--oh God. If they did that? Writers get my love forever.

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

I would love, more than is sane, for your hypothesis to be true. So much love. However, I have no faith in the writers/creators to go there. They are so not that creative. They are scarily gen and simplistic. From where I sit, the only reason they get some things write in a storyline is more because of the actors who play it that way. So...sadly...I don't think they're going there. But I would be so freaking thrilled if they would. Now THAT would be amazing story telling.

So go forth and write it. Cause you're right, the concept is too awesome for words.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*crosses fingers* I have faith.

[cobweb-diamond.livejournal.com]

They did say the s5 finale is going to be MEGA AWESOME OMG (Mallozzi's words, I believe),so I am guessing that Rodney was 100% a Michael agent, and the big s5 finale shocked is a) that, and b) all the major characters being killed off in one fell swoop of melodramatic shakespearean brilliance.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*crosses fingers*

[kimberlyfdr.livejournal.com]

I want that to be the situation...maybe if we all hope really hard it will come true?

[seperis.livejournal.com]

God, me too.

[tex.livejournal.com]

There's only one thing wrong with your theory of a fake hologramRodney Michael plant. which would be sooooo cool, btw. This episode was written by Mullie and Mallozzi, and thus what you see is what you get. There's nothing below the surface. They stole that ending from an episode of Dynasty.

Unless. Wait a minute. OMG. I get it now.

Season Five Episode one - John is going to come out of the shower and Rodney goes pale and says, "I just had the weirdest dream."

[seperis.livejournal.com]

DOES IT NOT MAKE SENSE?

I mean, in this timeline, Rodney didn't bother to worry about John trapped 48,000 years in the future until his girlfriend died? They didn't do anything? Rodney didn't obsessively explain how he spent years working on the problem?

I just--no. I believe the entire thing is based off Teyla's baby to an extent. But I believe a lot more that Rodney wouldn't wear a.) a sweater vest and b.) explain how the entire project was because Keller died.

I mean, I could be totally wrong, but--I dunno. It was too easy with the city, I think. One problem, sand. That's it. Everything else miraculously in perfect working order. Just--I don't see it. Especially when Rodney specifically states "Don't use the gates", because--you know, why not? If the other option is death by starvation?

[eleveninches.livejournal.com]

That would be pretty vawes.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I will seriously take back all I said about them if this is true.

[lydiabell.livejournal.com]

Totally unspoiled comment here.

I love this idea, I really do, but I have to say, I think it's an awfully long way to go to lay a trap for Sheppard & Co. I mean, it just doesn't seem necessary. They are not that hard to fool.

Write it, please? ::bats eyelashes::

[amireal.livejournal.com]

That's why I think it MIGHT be a combo-- that thing happened to sheppard, unplanned etc, and Rodney DID implant some way to help him, but I think Michael caught on and changed the scenario enough to either make him win, or make him win bigger or something.

[anjak-j.livejournal.com]

Great hypothesis - but I think you are crediting the writing staff of SGA with way more talent and intelligence than they deserve. Mallozzi and Mullie simply do not write stuff with that much depth or that is that clever.

Sorry to piss on the bonfire, but that's how I see it.

You should write that though, cos it's awesome.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*thoughtful* Normally I wouldn't, and I am pefectly willing to admit I could be wrong--but they set up an absolute worst-case scenario there, beyond regular worse case. He kept John from gating anywhere else, he has no food, so he's on a timeline, so it's either go with Holo!McKay's plan or die. Enough challenge to distract John, enough history to make him believe it, and making it Rodney McKay so it's unquestioned.

It's just--the entire thing was so pat, even for Atlantis. Nothing else went wrong! At all! Right until ambush. Something that there's no way Michael could have known about.

[aurora]

Hmm, I really love that idea, but I think Mallozzi and Mullie used up all their brainpower to think of the plot we saw on our screens. I really don't think they could come up with something as layered as you suggest. :| That being said: omg write it!!

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I HOPE. HOPE HOPE HOPE.

[bratfarrar]

Whoa. That...would make a lot of little things make sense. And it wouldn't be the first time an SG villain pulled (or almost pulled) a fast one on our heroes--Hathor tries a similar trick back in--er, season two? three? of SG-1. Only there, the team was able to find each other and figure out what was going on. But--oh, what if the promised Genii info was also a plant somehow? Because Michael seems to have an awfully good spy network and such.

--John, all alone and carrying the deaths of pretty much everyone, and almost dying in the sand storm.... Well, it would be a bit much to expect him to be thinking straight. Especially since he shows how unfamiliar he is with SG-1 lore (although that reference holo!Rodney makes to "1969" would be a bit hard to explain if it was Michael).


Erm. I don't know how coherent that was.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

It was useful in convincing John though, wasn't it? Happening ot know that? So as to stave off useless questions? He did a lot of that.

Can't use gate! No MALPS! So John can't go to anotehr planet.
SG1 had this happen! So of course it's true.
No food! Can't stick around here.
Planet is dying! Must get to stasis pod quickly!
Sandstorm! Keep him distracted.
All works perfectly! John goes home.
Amubush! Huh, didn't see *that* one.

[chopchica.livejournal.com]

Just pointing out that one of the prompts for BB is a post-s4 story!

Going out for the night. Won't be back till late and will probably be very drunk (wine sampling party with cheese and chocolate fondue, yay!). So chances are I'll talk to you tomorrow!

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Okies!

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

I'd like to believe this (because the recounted future made me nauseated), but there's just no way. It's pretty easy to explain the final scene--Michael has some security, triggered to blow the place up if people started logging in to his system!

[seperis.livejournal.com]

No, I agree, hence my five perecent theory that I'm right.

But I'm suspicious that John came back just in time to save Teyla, not quite in time to say, spend a couple of days examining the data crystal, Rodney didn't know about the solar flare at all until John said it, and they get there early where OMG ALL THE INFO THEY NEED and it's--a trap.

I am totally believing I'm wrong, yes. But even for SGA, that's very very pat, pat information, and kind of--well. Then what was the point of it exactly? The entire ep was then a set up for no actual climax to events.

[ceitie.livejournal.com]

Interesting theory, but it seems like a very complicated plan just to get a small group of Atlantis people killed when the building falls down. If Michael had captured John, wouldn't he be more useful as a hostage? To ensure Teyla's good behaviour if nothing else? Also, the fact that the solar flare actually happened at the exact right time, as confirmed by present!Rodney, makes it seem unlikely that it's all an elaborate scheme.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Like, I said, literally no chance this is correct. But I am curious, consdiering cirumstance, why he didn't see a solar flare in the sensor logs until John told him there was one and that handy data crystal was handed over.

[ringspells.livejournal.com]

I hope this is true. I guess it depends on what the first inspiration for the episode was. To me, it feels like it was "Let's do a possible-future episode!" rather than "How can Michael lead the Lanteans into a trap without the mindbond he used to get Teyla?" but even with the first, it could have evolved into, "But it's not really a possible-future episode!" and what you said.

God, I really hope it's like this.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Me too. So damn hopeful.

[ainaria.livejournal.com]

I like your theory! It would explain the something that's been bothering me. Mostly it's the missing scene in 48700 years in to the future, which I can't believe the writers wouldn't actually show. My theory is a bit more boring, something like John only dreams (if one can dream in the stasis pod) the rocks fall and everybody dies-ending. S5 would begin with Dallas-esque it was all a dream!-scene.
Anyhoo, I liked yours way better so I'm crossing fingers!
And in the meantime someone should really write that! *cough* :)

ETA: mixed up my 80s shows, so I corrected that one.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I am crossing fingers a lot.

[souliesoul.livejournal.com]

I'm liking this theory, because it explains Rodney not looking for ways to get John back sooner (when it wouldn't have been trying to change the timeline, just trying to get him back), and because John spends 700ish years in a stasis pod without aging a day - surely he should have aged a bit, I know Elizabeth was in the pod much longer than John would have been but surely there would have been some effect? Mind you that's most likely been handwaved by the writers etc :/

[seperis.livejournal.com]

AT least some stubble!

[keewick.livejournal.com]

That's a cool twist, but Mallozzi posted that spoilery poem about S4 awhile back that included the line 'As the death of a loved one spurs McKay into action.' At the time when it was posted (around mid S4), a lot of people believed it referred to Katie's impending death in Quarantine, but as we soon saw, she escaped the show alive. Now with the whole of the season behind us, I don't know what else that line could refer to except Last Man with Keller's death prompting Rodney to change the timeline. If you haven't already seen the poem, it's here - http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2007/12/31/december-31-2007-poetic-licentiousness/

So yeah, I think everything was as it appeared to be and that the building was simply booby-trapped in case the Atlanteans did somehow manage to stumble upon the place. Michael would know that the first thing McKay would do would be hack into the data terminal, so he would've put some security measures in place that'd trigger the countdown if someone tried to hack in.

Plus, the writers don't usually think super long term. If it was all gonna be some elaborate Michael set-up, I think they would've played that card in the final scene of the finale. That said, you should totally run with your fic idea! I could see it leading to lots of cool places.

b.) intimate knowledge of how Ronon and Sam and the Wraith queen died and c.) make me slightly less annoyed that if Jennifer hadn't had died, John would be starving to death 48,000 years in the future. Because seriously.

I assumed with Sam's death, Rodney got most of that information secondhand from those that were beamed down to the planet. Same with the wraith queen beheading...Rodney's voice-over says that within the year Michael had the wraith on their knees literally, but ceremonial beheadings could've been one of the horror stories that was relayed down the grapevine as Michael's hybrids grew in number and the wraith were wiped out. As for Ronon's death, the last guy with Ronon would've shared about him running into Todd and then all that we saw after that wasn't told with Rodney's voice-over, but was shown instead for us the audience to see what happened. Really, it's just lazy and loose exposition to blame, I think. The writers wanted us to know in detail what happened to each member and got so wrapped up in each of their fates that they kinda forgot that Rodney had a limited perspective. It gels better for me if I separate the visuals from the voice-overs and assume that a lot of what we're seeing isn't actually being relayed to John, that they're playing out merely for the viewer's benefit. After all, Sam's the only death we get specifics on in voice-over form.

The not trying to save John until after Keller died thing kind of annoyed me as well, but then I realized that it took Rodney 25 years of focusing *all his time and energy* on the project to come up with a solution. So at the time when John first disappeared, I bet saving John seemed utterly impossible (how could it not if it ultimately took one of the most brilliant minds two decades to find the answer when he was devoting his mind to it and it alone?), especially after Teyla was found dead and Atlantis was forced into an all out war with Michael and his hybrids. It would've meant Rodney turning his back on the war and Atlantis to return to earth *then* for the concentrated 25 years it'd take him to figure it out and I just don't think it's in character that he'd leave those left behind in the lurch like that, esp. when he had no plan to speak of. He only returned to earth after Sam and Ronon were gone and the IOA pulled Atlantis inward back out of the fight. As far as I'm concerned, it's not Keller's death so much that inspires Rodney to try to change everything by rescuing John over a year later, it's the sudden realization that with the rest of his life laid out in front of him with nothing left to lose there might finally be a real chance he could figure it out. I honestly don't think he thought finding a way to save John was feasible before, but once stripped of everyone and everything that could pose a distraction, he starts seeing possibilities again instead of dead ends. JMO.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Probably.

I was just surprised he didn't mention he'd tried on Atlantis but they couldn't find a way to get to him--being Rodney and taking that perseonally. But he practically told John "Well, after my girlfreind died, *then* I thought, hey, if I bring John back, she doens't die! And also, teh galaxy".

That is *so not Rodney*.

Edited because Teyla is very much already born and an adult, sigh.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

My thought processes, let me show you them:

1. This is AWESOME and BRILLIANT!

2. No way that the STARGATE WRITERS could come up with such a clever plot.

As for the trap, I read it as being that trigger in in the lab where Teyla was supposed to have her baby. And it was simply set to "Rodney or someone technically advanced, i.e. from Atlantis tries to access the system = boom."

Re: Edited because Teyla is very much already born and an adult, sigh.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Probably. *G* Like, point five percent chance I'm even close, I know. I just keep getting vaguely annoyed by the radio working when there was no power. And Rodney being able to turn on the stasis pod and open a drawer, despite being a hologram. No mention of Carson, no beard or hair growth, Rodney didn't see the sensor log in teh twelve days John was gone (seriously, that's freaky--isn't that the first thing he checks?), and how John miraculously made it back *just* in time for Teyla's supposed delivery. Like, right on time. So close in time, in fact, that there was no time for say, checking the data crystal John brought back with him very closely. That could alter sensor logs.

My theory, I find it pretty. Even for an Atlantis episode, it felt too pat. The big challenge was John walking in a sandstorm? I just--couldn't figure that one out.

[tienriu.livejournal.com]

I don't know - although a twist like that would be sort of cool, it's already been done in Stargate SG-1 (season 4? Wherein SG-1 wake up and are told they've been frozen for the past [x] decades due to ... something, I forgot - actually it was a rather brilliant episode, filled with subtle clues on why each of the team members realised it was a lie - except Jackson who was suspicious from the get-go cause he's paranoid that way).

What I thought was rather interesting is that if the ending holds true and we don't get miraculous "rocks fall but nobody ends up dead!" or the alternative, "rocks fall but only miscellaneous background characters end up dead", what SGA has is a time loop in which they can reset the past (or this moment of the past) as many times as they want until they fix the problem. (Which, hey, is much like the ending of SG-1 season 8 but at least in a new and much more frightening way)

If McKay doesn't survive and figure out a way to rescue Shepherd from the future, then Shepherd will never return, thus never staging a rescue mission that ends up killing him. This will reset the timeline, leaving Shepherd in the future, dying of exposure and/or hunger and McKay - dead.

The alternative is that now, when Shepherd appears 48 thousand years in the future, he'll either find nothing, a different hologram OR the McKay hologram programmed with the facts of the revised Teyla rescue mission.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I'm actually thinking of how Teyla mindscrwed the Wraith queen herself. And how Elizabeth did the same with the replicators.

...I have no idea how they'll do the timeline reset, unless they're talking a collapsed timeline of some sort. It's--confusing.

[fanaddict.livejournal.com]

AS I've said in the comments I don't find this scenario likely, nor do I think it's particularly anti-McKay/Sheppard since there were some subtle clues suggesting McKay was still working on getting Sheppard back despite the mind blowing aspect of screwing with the timeline as one renegade scientist.

That said... There are a couple of interesting things that work for your theory:
1) Last week when Beckett was going into stasis, McKay asked him if he wanted to dream. It's a throw away line, or so it seemed at the time, but it serves as a very nice reminder that in stasis people can be programmed to dream.

2) If Sheppard was in stasis already and dreaming, then when he woke up from stasis he wouldn't know if it was 700 years or... 12 days. If "McKay" had already said good bye or given him some reason to think he wouldn't be there when Sheppard woke up, then he would have woken up and stumbled through the gate without thinking about it. Michael would just need a mock up of the gate room for Sheppard to go to and activate the gate. We never did find out what address he was gating in from...

3) I assumed it was sloppy writing that allowed the viewers/Sheppard to see scenes from the various deaths that McKay couldn't have - but that could have been part of the dreams as well.

4) McKay giving him a data chip is odd, because he knows he's already messing with the timeline by getting Sheppard back but by giving him more future data he's actively co-opting the future. Another indication of how desperate he is to change the future he knows will happen otherwise, or something else. All Sheppard needed was the gate address to find Teyla...

5) The building collapsing on everyone at the end. I think the answer is merely booby trap rather than true trap. That said, from a story perspective, the building blowing up and everybody maybe dead just doesn't flow with the rest of the ep about getting Sheppard back. Yes, they were there because Sheppard came back with the info, and maybe it's a cool way of suggesting that time paradoxes take car of themselves. OTOH, it fits the narrative very well if Sheppard's information from the future is directly related to them all dying by intent rather than leading them to accidentally setting off a booby trap. So if I have faith in their writing ability, then I have to think that the ending came out of nowhere unless there is more going on with the info Sheppard came back with than we have reason to believe currently. Which supports your idea...

There are inconsistencies in a lot of things, personality and story-wise. I think it's most likely just sloppy storytelling by the writers and ways to make the characters do what they want even at the expense of previous characterization. OTOH, some things do make me think that it could work the way you suggest which would be awesome.

It all comes down to faith in the writers.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

It's not anti-ship so much as--it doesn't, to me, work with what we saw before. And it's not just that bit that confused me. Why Michael killed Teyla instead of hybridizing her like the other Athosians was weird. No beard growth was weird. The radio working without power was weird. Carson not being mentioned was weird as heck, considering this is two stasis episodes in a row. Rodney not noticing a solar flare for twelve days is *really weird*. And John losing his tac vest seconds before he goes into the stasis pod--well, probably bad writing, but he had the darn thing on through the entire ep. That was probably just the usual setting issues.

It just seemed--hmm. For a cliffhanger, it's not very cliffy. The real peril of being in the future and trying to get back would have made excellent cliffhanger, but for some reason, the entire thing is based on an exploding building where Teyla actually *wasn't* yet and it was weirdly anticlimactic when teh thrust of the entire ep was to get back to this place and time to save Teyla and Teyla's not there.

And I'm not usually this nitpicky! The entire ep got on my nerves for so many odd things going on.

[spike21.livejournal.com]

That would be incredibly cool except for the part where I'd have to take back everything I've ever said about Malozzi being a tool.

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

I, too, would be willing to make that sacrifice! And I, too, share your doubts.

[kassrachel.livejournal.com]

You should totally write it yourself! What a lovely idea!

Though I actually totally dug the finale; I seem to be in the minority here, but I thought it was really fun. :-)

More later, when I am home again!

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I would have probalby loved it if the ending hadn't been there. STopping at John going into the stasis chamber would have been *aweseome*--but teh building stuff seemed so anticlimactic compared to all the build. After that, and blinking, because I seriously thought there *had* to be more, I started--well, nitpicking. *G*

[elli.livejournal.com]

You know...that is a brilliant idea!!!!!!!!!

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*G* I like it. I totally own my conspiracy theories!

Veeeerrrry fishy

[(Anonymous)]

I was scratching my head over the solar flares, too - Rodney must have learned from Sam, the solar-sensitive cetacean, the danger of not tracking solar flares, even if they aren't on Atlantia anymore. And when Rodney was asked why the gate's failsafes didn't kick in, he was all "mumble, mumble, glitch, it's Zelenka's fault". A glitch? In the stargate? And Rodney isn't all over that, yelling and screaming? Plus, the hair and the beard and the convenience of John returning with the one piece of information which will lead them to an empty lab with a booby trap? Hmmmmm, I say.

Now the writers might not be smart enough to concoct a cunning plan, but Michael certainly is. He's so fiendishly clever that he can reach into the writers' brains, rewrite their story and make them forget anything ever happened. The season 5 premiere will be as much a surprise to them as it'll be to the audience.

Eurydice

Re: Veeeerrrry fishy

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, *YES*.

Now the writers might not be smart enough to concoct a cunning plan, but Michael certainly is. He's so fiendishly clever that he can reach into the writers' brains, rewrite their story and make them forget anything ever happened. The season 5 premiere will be as much a surprise to them as it'll be to the audience.

I almost spit out my soda.

Also, you should get an LJ!