briefly, and with malice aforethought

Eventually, when I'm less shocked--I shouldn't be, but I am, because it always, always surprises me how people bend and ignore canon so they don't have to rethink their assumptions about any given character--I am going to do a long, long meta on why in general I prefer gen to slash in SGA because of how much I am growing to hate how John Sheppard is written.

Because--seriously. The latest round of Fucked Up Sheppard is not just reaching--that's creating brand new vistas of denial. I mean, YMMV, Infinite Diversity, and Live Long and Prosper, but if people can take a week of offense from Rodney having to have a lemon in his general line of sight, I'm reserving the right to have a twenty-four hour period of moodiness for the latest explanation of how being a private person is somehow deeply wrong.

...really. I just--wow. I have got to not be tempted by links. Did anyone see the same episode I did?

Comments

[batdina.livejournal.com]

what'd I miss?

Seriously. I'm still so happy about the episode I haven't bothered to read anyone's meta. Maybe I'll just not and save myself the trouble?

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Well. A lot of the meta will work if you are totally into the John Is An Emotinal Cripple And Why Do People Put Up With Him.

Otherwise--yeah, good luck. I knew better! And I still clicked. And it was bad.

[transtempts.livejournal.com]

That is why I enjoy ltlj's stuff far more than a lot of the slash out there. Canon seems to be interpreted as 'Sheppard is quiet ie he is v. v. broken.' ::sigh:: It couldn't be that he is just quiet.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Yes. Exactly. I just--I need to go read her today and relax.

[smittywing.livejournal.com]

O_o

Okay, dude, now I gotta ask - which links are you clicking on? I'm paid-account hooked up if you want to be all subtle-like and email privately.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Let me think if I'm going to answer it directly or not; I feel vaguely like I'm comfortable enough with my interpretation to do a point by point refutation, but I'm not sure I really like the idea of a cross-contradictory meta.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Tempted as I am to use my Rodney and the lemon icon, I'll restrain myself...

I'm like you, thinking it makes no sense - the latest episode makes it crystal clear he fell out with his family, his marriage broke up, at least three people he knew died in the presumably not that distant past, and then he got a black mark and sent to Antarctica. Is it really any wonder he doesn't like to talk about his past all that much? It's actually kind of a nice thing to do, in a slightly skewed way, that he prefers not to tell his sob story to everyone he knows.

Just because Rodney gets seen as the kind of guy who can't keep his mouth shut (which is also debatable), that doesn't make being different a bad thing. Diversity is, you know, what makes the show interesting, because everyone isn't exactly the same.

Huh - who knew I was that bothered by it?!

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Just knowing other people agree is enough to drop my BP two points instantly.

Seriously--my favorite part was how it was all John's fault that he was estranged with hsi family. I mean, that's totally canon! Excpet you know, that it's completely adn utterly contradicted by canon.

But why let canon get in the way, you know?

*seethes*

[trobadora]

I LOVE YOU. THAT IS ALL.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I AM CALMER NOW. A CAN MET ITS DEMISE AGAINST THE WALL TO GAIN THAT.

*breathes and clings* I am zen. So zen.

[ltlj.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm finding I really enjoy the show so much more when I don't keep up with the fandom at all. I read fanfic by you and a couple of other people, I download images, and that's pretty much it, and I'm darn happy with that.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

God yes. Yes. I've decided if I want meta? I have to write it myself. And that is working for me really well.

Also, thank you for writing John Sheppard. I literally cannot imagine I'd still be sane if I hadn't started reading you and have that to run to.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

I'm curious now. Most of the stuff I've seen seems to be making the same point as you - quiet and introverted is not the same thing as messed up.

I definitely haven't seen anything wondering why people put up with him - where did that one come from? *boggles*

Of course, I didn't click every link. And I'm quite good at repressing the stupid stuff (eep, repression! Oh noes! I will now go wibbly in the head and have a breakdown!)

[seperis.livejournal.com]

There was more than one I found, but I hit a link and just lost my temper. I just--yeah. I read that and stopped processing that bit.

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

Thank god I'm not seeing that on my flist, because srsly. I totally buy that John is bad at social interactions dealing with emotion, as is Rodney, and see the several excellent ep tags that came from Quarantine. That doesn't mean that he doesn't deal with his emotions at all. But then I'm one of those people who likes to process on my own, too.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*nods* I just--I have one person on earth I feel comfortable with having a truly emotional conversation and honestly, I still like to have a period of time to process it somethign by myself. I have never met anyone who hears about a death in their family and wants to immediately discuss their feelings.

There is difference in character interpretation and then there's just bizarre justification of character-dislike.

[giogio.livejournal.com]

Huh. You know, if anything, I thought Outlast actually demonstrated that John isn't nearly as fucked up as previously assumed, as in, his divorce seems to have been more or less amicable, his estrangement from his family is pretty standard for estrangement and so on...

[ratcreature]

Yeah, that's what I thought too.

[ratcreature]

I know why I almost never read SGA meta... And seriously, what is people's baseline for "normal" emotional sharing? I mean, compared to my family for example Sheppard is outright open about his feelings, awkward as he is sometimes.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Compared to my father and one of my exes? He's downright feely. I can't extrapolate that on the general population, but really, it's not like we see any other character other than Rodney dropping down anywhere to talk about their feelings all that often.

[amireal.livejournal.com]

As someone who talks a lot and says very little I think John is private and doesn't like to share, because yes, he has difficulty sharing it sometimes. But broken? No.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* Or he acts like most guys I know. I mean, he's private and not huge on talking abou this feelings. Like a lot of people. It's--gah.

[elke-tanzer.livejournal.com]

*lobs a quite naked, introverted and horny John Sheppard in your direction*

*leaves you two alone for a while*

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I love you a lot. Be at VVC this year?

[miss-porcupine.livejournal.com]

I need to use my new icon space for a Lemon Rodney tribute...

You and I might have seen the same episode, but I do wonder about what many others were watching.

John the Emotional Cripple has been building since Doppelganger, maybe before (depends on how much you marginalized Elizabeth before Season Four). This is maybe the tidal wave hitting shore. It's like the Post-Trinity Fic for Rodney, except on a smaller scale because nothing's that big.

Personally, I thought John handled Outcast like a socially normalized grown-up -- a socially normalized grown-up who has always had his eye on the nearest exit, but a socially normalized grown-up nonetheless.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Pretty much exactly. As far as I can go is that he might have been a littel screwed up in Antarctica--you know, with all his friends dying and his black mark and still estranged from his family--but it's not like this is unique and deeply wrong.

Just. It's a huge what the hell. A lot.

Yes, we normally see the same episodes. *g* I am just UberJohnFan (I feel I need to equal the energy of two UberRodneyFans to compensate).

[acari.livejournal.com]

That's why I don't read episode reactions as a general rule, except from the few people who have yet to make me headdesk.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I cut myself off from anyone not on my flist or told specifically by Ami I can read it (seriously, she will say "DO NOT CLICK" when I start acting adventurous. I have learned).

*takes breath* Meta meta meta. Meta meta meta. If I want to read meta, I will write it. Then I cna only annoy myself.

[dovil.livejournal.com]

I think the way to enjoy fandom is skate across it very quickly and look out for thin ice. Or to put it in another watery way, the shallow end of the pool means less chance of drowning in other people's words.

Different people get attached to different things that have nothing to do with the show and everything to do with them, otherwise people wouldn't get so attached to that extent in the first place. I mean, it's a piece of entertainment at the end of the day, but meta is where it hooks in to people's views of how they see the world at large, and that's always going to mean friction and hair pulling.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*nods* very true, and I've thought before about the fact I have a very definite type when it comes to my fannish crushes--Tom Paris, Logan, Lex Luthor, Brian Kinney, and circle back around to John Sheppard, Voyager redux but with better episodes and as a slasher. I think I tend to be more, in this fandom, like Rodney, but John resonates for me personality wise and I think the same idea is waht draws anyone to a character.

Usually, I remind myself when I hit a meta or story that is totally contradictory to what I see. *sighs* That day was not today.

[teenygozer.livejournal.com]

Huh. When I watch SGA, I always think, "Jesus, Sheppard is just like every guy I ever knew in my life." I suppose a case can be made that men are, in general, a bunch of emotional cripples, but that's more like the sort of thing you roll your eyes at rather than condemn the lot of them to sessions with a psychiatrist.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Exactly.

[alastairs-piano.livejournal.com]

Thank you. YES. I hate that so many people think being quiet means being fucked up instead of meaning, you know, he's quiet. There's a really big difference between private person and fucked up psycho. And I think John Sheppard is a little bit nuts, of course, but in the best possible way - the kind of guy who would name a wraith Todd, you know?

I think I stumbled on one of the links you're talking about; if not, well, there are similarities. Let us just say that I am pleased to have a back button.

[alastairs-piano.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry for the random stranger's ranting. This is a point I feel kind of strongly on, as I am introverted (and quite happily, thank you).

[nymphaea1.livejournal.com]

I promise I am not internet stalking you (well, I don't think I am. My introvert nature does prevent me from having any knowledge of my feelings or motivations however, so perhaps I am), but again, yes.

When I am trying to feel patient and generous, I tell myself that I feel badly for the people who write this stuff. Because it's clear to me that they view the world in a terribly narrow focus where anything beyond a strict range of how they do things is fucked up and wrong. And I'd have to think that to live your life boxed up by your own self-righteousness is pathetic and sad.

But that attitude only lasts for so long. It's expiration did account for my separation from fandom for the last three months or so.

It's just such bullshit I don't know how people bring themselves to type it.

I find myself experiencing this weird combination of anger and hilarity every time I read any of those posts. Here we are, in fandom, where we talk and talk and talk and talk and talk about how terrible it is to be judged by men, non-fans, whatever. And yet when it comes right down to it we're as normative as anyone. Our definition of normal may be a slight shift to the left of the mainstream, but we're just as happy to demonize the other as any of the people we rant against.

I had to stop reading the posts as soon as I saw it would totally not be Nancy's fault if she cheated on John because he cheated on her by lying about his sexuality already.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

....I need to lie down now after that last line, okay? I need to lie down.

[vonknibble.livejournal.com]

Personally, I thought 'Outcast' just continues to show John isn't the emotionally tortured soul. I thought his behaviour to be pretty damn normal, in fact.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Pretty much exactly. Just normal, human life problems!

Oh my God this is Lex Luthor and Club Zero Is Not a BDSM Bar all over again....

[aurora]

:-/ :-/ :-/ to the extreme!!

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Solidarity in John's right to not have to talk!

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

Did anyone see the same episode I did?

Philosophically speaking, no. It's a can-you-step-twice-in-the-same-river thing: everyone has a different brain, so even with constant input (=same episode) what shows up in each brain as "seeing the episode" is different.

Furthermore, there's the fact that anyone who, in the Real World, behaved as *any* of the characters do in TeeVeeLand would be what we technically call "a nutjob". To get from "what we see onscreen" to "the inner life of any mostly sane human being" *always* requires massive interpolation, extrapolation, and throwing out data that doesn't fit.

if people can take a week of offense from Rodney having to have a lemon in his general line of sight, I'm reserving the right to have a twenty-four hour period of moodiness for the latest explanation of how being a private person is somehow deeply wrong.

This implies to me that you're angry about the way Sheppard was treated in *canon* (because the Rodney/lemon drama also was mostly about fans' feelings about R's treatment in canon), but the rest of your, um, rant implies that you're ticked at other fans, not at canon. I R confuzled.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Re Lemon: no, that was the fans. The hyperoffense at teh concept of Rodney seeing a lemon and the endless ranting about John and Cameron being the equivalent of Satan.

And fans have YMMV. But there's seeing teh river in differnet ways, and then denying a river exists. That's a pretty damn big leap to make.

[bratfarrar]

I'm just grateful I've managed to find a corner of fandom that seems to be relatively sane. And that you usually say everything I want (and fail) to say about John's emotional/mental state. (It's why I friended you. Well, that and the stories.)

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*grins* Thank you!

My sanity--might be questionable. But I try to restrain the ranting. Sometimes.

[cjandre.livejournal.com]

Ummmm hmmm - you know I have been living under a rock for about a month, right? So I know nothing - but the only thing i noticed about this episode was OMG JOHN IS SO OBVIOUSLY KNOWN TO BE GAY!!!! At least by his brother.

And OMG Rodney is so IN LOVE!!!!!

And Mmmmmm Ronan and John buddy fucking would be totally awesome and doable, and Ronan doesn't CARE if Brother thinks he's a boy toy because, yes, he COULD break him in half with a thought.

And Wow - John is the classic WASP in the way he handles grief, isn't he?

And Yeah - that was the sum of my analysis.

I admit to having a soft spot for psychotic John, but really Psychotic isn't what i got from this episode. Repressed WASP: that would sum it up. And he's just WAY happier where he doesn't have to pretend to be something he isn't (ie dutiful straight son and heir).

So i don't know - did we watch te same show, Sweety? Do I WANT to know what others are saying?

:-)

Probably not.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

It's a more run away now if you see it. Stressing.

And yes, WASP. That was the acronym I didn't remember!

[summertea.livejournal.com]

*scratches head* I'm not sure what the current meta on John Sheppard is, but he's always seemed pretty okay with himself. He's not like Rodney, who really wants to make himself a better person. John's a quiet sort of dude, pretty private. He might be a little screwed up but he probably knows it too. :o

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*nods* See, I kinda thought John's pretty okay as is.

I'm kind of wondering

[calligrafiti.livejournal.com]

Just when is all this deep emotional outpouring supposed to be taking place on SGA episodes? Not to hit the SF show stereotypes too hard, but the series is about a bunch of people exploring a fairly hostile galaxy, with the occasional side of team bonding over coffee and mutual mocking. We get shooting. We get daring rescues and escapes. We get attempts to share vital parts of Earth art such as Jaws and Blades of Glory with people in different cultures.

So yes, we got a bit of Elizabeth's emotional landscape in the episode with the nanite dreams because the episode was taking place almost entirely in her head. And we get a fair bit of Rodney's headspace because he canonically overshares—April Bingham and middle-school mono? Who brings that up when space vampires are about to attack? Rodney does, but he's a genius who generally solves the problem of the episode at the same time, so he gets a pass. He's not the yardstick for appropriate emotional display.

And if people did spend time describing their deep seated heart pain when they should be breaking out of prison/stopping the ancient device from exploding/fighting against overwhelming odds? I would want someone in the credits to shoot them. Because there's stuff to do. Get a therapist and deal on your own time, Emo SciFi Hero Wannabe, because you got a ticket through the wormhole to do a job, not share your evidently not so secret sorrow.

John's shown he's affected by a lot of things—the loss of comrades in battle, waking the wraith, the death of his father. And then he goes back to work and does what needs doing. That's why he's the hero.

Yeah, sorry, that got a bit ranty there. But your post unleashed a fair bit of accumulated eyerolling on my end. All of which can be distilled to . . .

Yes. I think you make some good points there.

Re: I'm kind of wondering

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I am still in search of my zen. It's just so--so frustrating to read some of this stuff and wonder what on earth the emotional standard is supposed to be.

I mean, other than Rodney, no one shares on that show other than alien intervention, reapproachment, or death. It's not like this is unique.