shepherd's pie - a dish wronged

Wow.

(Link found at OTF_Wank at Journalfen)

A Flame War on Shepherd's Pie etymology.

This is possibly the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. It goes from food to education to World War II to the Revolutionary War to education to canned gravy to football to the war in Iraq. Yes. From Shepherd's Pie.

Highlights

Tony Blair - on those darned Americans messing up words!

That's a Cottage pie, shepherd's pie is made with lamb, the clue is in the name, shepherds don't herd cows do they?

Americans get so many things wrong, that doesn't mean you have to go along the wrongness, use the correct phrases and terminology and educate your people.

Stop perpetuating ignorance.

Jim - on World War II! And the Revolutionary War! And the Puritans!

Believe me, it's not for our own good. If we wanted your opinion, we would've never left your country. Instead, we left, kicked you *** out when you tried to control us, and then helped save your *** in a couple of wars (strictly for the greater good of the world, not because we actually like your wet, dank, stinky island of a country).

We like our food. We don't like yours, which is precisely why we don't serve it here. Get the point?

Ray Adams - on football!

Okay, we'll call it "USA Freedom Hamburger Shepards Pie"!!! There now, its all ours you can pull up your knickers and untwist them while your at it. Besides we let you call what ever that is you play across the pond "football" when it certainly doesn't meet our defintion of it.

And....

A Real Cook - on My Ability To Take Food Too Seriously, Let Me Show You It!

What we have learnt from this thread...

1) The etymology of "Shepherd's Pie" clearly indicates it should be made with lamb. Shepherds who herd cows are called Cowboys - most Americans should be familiar with this term - I believe someone made some movies about them once.

2) Cans of vegetables are not real vegetables - they are processed crap. Go to a market and buy real vegetables and, you know, like, peel them and chop them and stuff - it really isn't hard

3) Jars of chemicals made by Heinz are not gravy. Real gravy is incredibly simple to make

4) Adding tins of processed Cambells soup concentrate to a recipe to add flavour is madness.

5) Don't sprinkle cheese on top of the mash - this just goes gooey and stops the fluffed mash crisping up - mix the grated cheese into the mash.

6) Tater Tots are not real potatoes. Why not just pop to Mickey D's and buy a supersize fries and sprinkle them on top instead?

6) It is hard to take seriously a nation that recommends mixing "cheese soup" or "creamed chicken" into a recipe for minced beef or lamb.

Read the whole thread. It's beautiful.

Is this how non-fen feel when they read about shipper wars?

For the record:
1. Tater tot casserole? Now want.
2. Shepherd's Pie? I will call it Cottage Pie over my dead body.
3. Canned gravy? Okay, I have no defense of that one. I'm from Texas. Gravy is a food group. I have never seen it canned. So I have no idea.

ETA: Link to Wikipedia's entry on Shepherd's Pie. This is now gospel, because I agree with it.

ETA 2: Oh my God, they dragged in Scottish history.



Ray Adams - on the plight of Scotland

Your King Eddy didn't seem to draw much a difference between the soveriegn people of Scotland and your great homeland as he walked in conquered them. So why start now...I am just going with the flow man! You got them and their recipes vididiot! Aren't they a common wealth....no they are actually part of the UK right?

Or were they just adding some "common wealth" to your empire jacko?

This is awesome.

Comments

[svmadelyn.livejournal.com]

I'll die before I let the English dictate to *me* that it's cottage pie. I don't have to have correct "terminology." I know what it is in my mind and my heart and that's enough for any true American. And if I want gravy from a jar, by God, I pity the person who tries to pry it from me.

*solidarity*

[svmadelyn.livejournal.com]

You know full well I also don't do gravy from a jar. But the point remains: if I wanted to, no power on this earth could stop me. Not even those flying under the Union Jack. *darkly mutters*

[dovil.livejournal.com]

England and America should stop with the pigtail pulling and just make out already.

[svmadelyn.livejournal.com]

New Zealand's just waiting for the breakup to get to be rebound country. *arches eyebrow*

[niqaeli]

Yeah, uh, I've resigned myself to no American what hasn't lived in England for a time ever getting the shepherd's pie/cottage pie distinction down. It's, you know. Not an American dish. Etc. And language drifts. That's what dialects *are*. Getting angry over language drift is like getting angry at, I don't know, rocks for turning into sand when pounded by water. Or any other natural process. Also--really. It's freaking pie. Pie should be a source of joy not anger!

I think possibly I begin to understand what non-fen must feel when reading over nearly any sort of fannish wank. Holy cow.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

DID YOU GET TO THE SCOTTISH HISTORY LESSON?

I AM SO IN LOVE. I AM I AM I AM.

[justascream.livejournal.com]

Texas. Gravy. Food group. YES. Back in christmas season '06, a friend from Michigan and I were talking over IM. "We had blah blah blah blah for dinner," she said. "Yum," I responded. "We had blah blah redeye gravy blah blah country gravy blah blah giblet gravy blah blah onion gravy blah blah tomato gravy..." In return, I receive ellipses, like so: "..."

After a series of questions and explanations and so forth, I was told, "That's just so weird. Why would you need all those different kinds of gravy? I thought there was only the one kind."

...yeahhhh. I ended up just saying "I'm from Texas." As usual, that was explanation enough.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

It's hard to explain that gravy has personality that must be matched to the dish. It's like wine. But tastier, and you really can find one that goes with everything!

[sorchasilver.livejournal.com]

This is awesome! Mostly because I had absolutely NO IDEA that the USA didn't distinguish between shepherd's pie and cottage pie. That's just weird to me (I'm Scottish). But this whole thing is hysterical! And I learned something!

Also, I do not understand the American idea of gravy at all. :)

[seperis.livejournal.com]

My favorite part was the brief digression into the BDSM relationship between Tony Blair and George Bush.

Amazing. *glows*

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

Great. Now I'm hungry.

Mmmm, GOD I want some. Peas and mashed potatoes and ground meat of AWESOME.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

They totally are. Though I like to put French cut green beans in. Deliciousness. And lots of cheese.

[justascream.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know one! Mincemeat pie! I love mine with the dates and fruit and so forth, but I've only had one with actual meat in my many years of loving mincemeat pie. Meanwhile, my friends in Australia and New Zealand are just like "...but that's not mincemeat pie. IT'S NOT. NO."

...but it is to me? Please don't beat me up with kiwis and vegemite?

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I have seen it but never had it--but I do not remember meat being in the list of ingredients.

Hmmm.

[spike21.livejournal.com]

I was so disappointed to find the Shepherd's Pie wank was not wank about genderfucked John's misspelled vagina.

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

Shepherd's Creampie?

[lavvyan.livejournal.com]

Am I bad for picturing John trying to woo Rodney by cooking him this amazing dinner, only it totally backfires because he's "called the dish by its wrong name, omg, don't you American heathens know anything?"

It goes downhill from there.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Hee! Rodney will never, ever get another date from John again.

[firesprite1105.livejournal.com]

Oh my GOD. I am so entertained. I especially enjoyed the sarcastic comment along the lines of, "why not make shepherd's pie with actual shepherds, dumbass."

*continues rubbernecking through the comment threads*

that's a good laugh

[tardis80.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. I guess it goes to prove that anyone anywhere can wank. I think my favorite comment is by Mister senor love daddy:

"Hold it! Stop it! Time out! Now -- y'all take a chill.

I think, my brothers and sisters, that part of the mix-up comes from a simple hiccup at the grocery store, you dig. 'Cos here, in these U-nited States, you can't GET minced lamb -- only minced beef or minced turkey. Maybe minced pork if you're lucky. So some long-ago cat who wanted to make a sheperd's pie had to make do with the minced moo, but still called it the same, and ever-on we here in the U.S. of A. called it that; kinda the way that y'all over there call it an "Elastoplast" whether y'all are using an actual Elastoplast, or a different brand.

But my kittens, does it really matter what we all call it? It still tastes so good goin' down, right? Let's all be glad we can break this bread -- or pie -- together. And that's the double-truth, ruth!"

[starry-diadem.livejournal.com]

I loved the reference in there to a "film about gay cowboys", because hey, you know what? They were really gay shepherds.

I don't remember any pie, though.


(edited: fiLm, that's film. I don't know what a fim about gay cowboys may be, but it probably involves lube and oddly-shaped saddles)

[that_mireille]

*facepalm*

You know... even as a lifelong resident of the US, I grew up with this distinction. (And don't like cottage pie at all, but *do* like shepherd's pie. Hm, perhaps I should buy ground lamb tomorrow.)

But. Oh. Wow. That is some amazing wank, and now... yes. This is what non-fen feel like when they stumble across a shipwar, isn't it.

(I'm from Georgia. Canned gravy is an abomination.)

[touchstoneaf.livejournal.com]

i laughed even harder in the comments here. especially when you and others started waxing poetic and longing over foods i've never heard of in Texas/the South.

love affair.
having lived in the UK (Scotland, and btw, i do agree with them on the whole Football discussion), and never having eaten casseroles TILL then (i grew up eating mutated imported eastern European junk from the Poli-Russian side via upper peninsual Michigan), i find i wish to sidestep the entire discussion in favor of the ultimate victor of all meat-and-other-crap pies, the CORNISH PASTY, baby.

preferably made with lots of suet and sold from a stand in a city square. now THAT is fast food.

oh, and let me just say, tacos aside, you have NEVER had a breakfast BURRITO like the ones at EZ Out in Upland, CA (the only place to get a proper burger, IMO)... They put like, a dozen eggs in a homemade tortilla the size of your TORSO, and fill it with homemade salsa with COPIOUS amounts of cilantro (GOD, the CIIIILANTRO!), crumble up the bacon, and do SOMETHING else with it that cannot be identified but is surely the Cali-Spanglish version of 'je ne se quois?'...and it takes you about a WEEK to eat it all and it only gets BETTER and BETTER the longer everything soaks in together, and to call anything else a breakfast burrito after that experience is surely some kind of food-related blasphemy.

great, now i want one and my college town is like 900 miles south of me.

[pionie.livejournal.com]

That was brilliant, especially the pie-chart of pie! I'm English, and round my way, we call *anything* that is kinda gravy-ish topped with mashed potato Shepherd's Pie. Including lentil mixtures. It just means 'really tasty dinner with mashed potato on top' to me :)

[vylit.livejournal.com]

OH GOD. Like, it's totally ridiculous AND INSANE. These people should be in fandom. No, seriously, they'd blend in. But, uh, the ruder people got the more I was all, "Hey, you can't say that shit, you jackass. I don't care what you call it, because it's Shepherd's Pie!"

God, a sign of the fact that I've been in fandom too long -- I don't even like Shepherd's Pie, and I was getting irritated while reading that RIDICULOUS wank.

[paraka]

I'll have to go read this thread later when I'm not supposed to be working, because it sounds great, but I just have to say, when I read the line "A Flame War on Shepherd's Pie etymology." I totally heard it in my head as "A Flame War on (John) Shepherd's Pie etymology." And was wondering when they ever mentioned anything about John and pie together on the show :P

[anjak-j.livejournal.com]

There's nothing like some petty wank to make you smile. =D

[vee-fic.livejournal.com]

The best part, as is pointed out way down near the end: these people are arguing about traditional English cuisine. It could only be funnier if they were arguing about New England Boiled Dinner.

[(Anonymous)]

I thought Sheperd's pie was something you made with Thanksgiving leftovers (turkey, peas, potatos, gravy etc) (meep) Imagine herding turkeys ;-)

[tropes.livejournal.com]

This wank makes me HOONGREH.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

http://seperis.livejournal.com/555782.html?thread=13825542&style=mine#t13825542

Allll fooood. If I had been able to sit up straight at three last night? Id' have been deep frying something. Anything.

[cynonymous.livejournal.com]

The "Obviously Texas is a state of cowerds" post made me laugh out loud. At work.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*glee*

[snarkist.livejournal.com]

Heh. Cooking wank! That's awesome. Here are a couple of my fave responses:

Baloney Tair

Tony, I can see your point about subbing apples for bananas. Surely, replacing a pomaceous fruit from a tree with a herbaceous cluster-fruit would change the general structure and consistency. And I see how it correlates: replacing one red-meated, grass-fed ungulate's flesh with another will surely cause the entire flan to collapse, so to speak. You should find three other people that honestly care about whether or not their casseroles have cow or sheep in the mix and unite to form a super-team that roams the world looking for meat pie infractions. It'd be a better use of your time.

Mister Senor Love Daddy

Hold it! Stop it! Time out! Now -- y'all take a chill.

I think, my brothers and sisters, that part of the mix-up comes from a simple hiccup at the grocery store, you dig. 'Cos here, in these U-nited States, you can't GET minced lamb -- only minced beef or minced turkey. Maybe minced pork if you're lucky. So some long-ago cat who wanted to make a sheperd's pie had to make do with the minced moo, but still called it the same, and ever-on we here in the U.S. of A. called it that; kinda the way that y'all over there call it an "Elastoplast" whether y'all are using an actual Elastoplast, or a different brand.

But my kittens, does it really matter what we all call it? It still tastes so good goin' down, right? Let's all be glad we can break this bread -- or pie -- together. And that's the double-truth, ruth!

Hee. I love it.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I love that entry--God so much. So. Much.

[frog4.livejournal.com]

Oh. My. Gods. I am dying of laughter over here. This is the best wank of all time, and I am totally ganking the link, because it is too wonderful not to share. Thanks!

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Is it not made of win? I sent the link around my office. My mom was ranting about this *all afternoon*.

...please God let her not have commented there.

[fyrdrakken]

And on reading the Wiki page, I become belatedly aware that the bowls KFC started selling of corn and chicken bits swirled into mashed potatoes are apparently the "cowboy pie/Chinese pie" variation on the recipe. And I would have refused to eat shepherd's pie, but I really like the KFC bowls.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Delicious. *happy* I've been making those at home from leftovers since i was a kid. Mmmm.

Chinese pie? Huh. *Interesting*.