Signal Boost: Let me tell you about my Problematic Favorite.

thornsilver posted: Let me tell you about my Problematic Favorite. Anna Bishop's books (and that is true for all of her novels and short stories that I have read) have certain common themes. They are extremely rapey. Often that is true both about male and female characters. There is also a lot of lovingly described sadism. All the villains are sadists and rapists. And child molesters. (And "Black Jewels" trilogy has a real creepy thing that comes close enough to pedophilia to be a kissing cousin. Which gets circumvented by the skin of the teeth and a time jump.) And her male/female relationships dynamics are... I was going to use "problematic", but I already used this word. In any case, it is usually shown as predatory and exploitative with the few exceptions of Heroes and Heroines, which are of course completely trustworthy. Despite living in a society that supports and showcases predator and exploitative.

As far as "Black Jewels" go, it has all of this in spades. I hate the arcs of some of the characters. I have a lot of refrigerator questions about her worldbuilding. And yet, for inexplicable reasons, I still love and re-read these.

This is all true, absolutely true, yes. I, too, love this series, re-read it entirely once a year, and completely ignore certain 'wtf' because whatever.

However, this post spoke to me today because I'm on my period. It fulfills another function aside from my need for casual violence (...reading, I suppose should be at least said here); alone in fiction, we have (many) really soothing passages of women who are on their periods being told they should take off work, go to bed and nap/read/be read to and are brought blankets and meals and snacks (and between snack snacks) while men compete to make the best remedy for menstrual cramps and give massages.

I do not deny problematic, weird, and sometimes flat out "...what the everloving fuck" but five days a month, I forgive everything for knowing there is fiction that spent quality page time making a few races worth of fictional women who also happen to menstruate super fucking comfortable while their uterii threaten to crawl out of their body and kill them (but don't actually kill them because they're not that merciful).

(Also, almost no menstrual jokes I can remember. Do you know why? Anyone who made them would be vaporize by their Jewels like right then. Survival of the fittest works.)

Comments

[krait]

...I'm assuming OP meant Anne Bishop?

I would stongly disagree that 12-year-old Jaenelle kissing Daemon is 'pedophilia [...] circumvented by the skin of the teeth and a time jump,' if that's the scene they're talking about, too, but *shrug*

I reread these books frequently, and have requested fic for them in exchanges (to great success)! There may or may not be twenty-six pages of incomplete fic ideas on my hard drive. :D

The menstrual issues might actually be my least favourite thing in the series, but I can handwave them by muttering grafted-on dragon behaviours and deal, most of the time. And clearly other people enjoy it, as your post demonstrates, so I'm glad someone gets something out of it beyond frustration.

My own biggest unanswered question for this universe is: where's all the femdom BDSM? Given the worldbuilding it should be as common as dirt, the 'default' setting for kink, and yet the narrative seems pretty intrinsically slanted against it; we don't see a single protagonist-coded female character getting off by dominating her man or men.

[thornsilver]

Yep, I did mean Anne Bishop. I say that she circumvented the pedophilia by the time jump because we don't get to see Daemon deal with Jaenelle as a mid-teen. First she is a child, then she is an adult. I don't see how she could have pulled off him watching her go through puberty without making the whole situation more disturbing. I mean, he supposedly did not react to her sexually at 12 because her psychic scent was not mature. At what point during sexual development that wasn't going to be the case any more?

YMMV

[krait]

we don't get to see Daemon deal with Jaenelle as a mid-teen

Ahh, okay, that makes more sense.

Daemon, honestly, is probably also secretly relieved that he did not have to deal with Jaenelle as a mid-teen. :D

I'm guess subconsciously I gathered that witches aren't 'sexually mature' until 18-20ish, because we learn that dark-Jeweled witches mature more slowly, and because witches generally don't make the Offering (and receive their 'adult' Jewels) until age 20, which might have more to do with it than physical maturity since Daemon is at least as attracted to Jaenelle's psychic scent as her physical scent... It'd be an interesting topic for fanfic to explore!

[seperis]

I'm guess subconsciously I gathered that witches aren't 'sexually mature' until 18-20ish, because we learn that dark-Jeweled witches mature more slowly, and because witches generally don't make the Offering (and receive their 'adult' Jewels) until age 20, which might have more to do with it than physical maturity since Daemon is at least as attracted to Jaenelle's psychic scent as her physical scent... It'd be an interesting topic for fanfic to explore!

Puberty doesn't even start until thirteen-fourteen for jeweled witches, so yeah, sexual maturity would be correspondingly later. I put it around twenty as well. From the text, I'm guessing that the need to make the offering for their ranking Jewel is an indicator they're also mature enough for sex.

[seperis]

My own biggest unanswered question for this universe is: where's all the femdom BDSM? Given the worldbuilding it should be as common as dirt, the 'default' setting for kink, and yet the narrative seems pretty intrinsically slanted against it; we don't see a single protagonist-coded female character getting off by dominating her man or men.

Dude, I know.

To be fair, for a book series that's this goddamn sexual, there's actually not that much explicit sex. However, I think Twilight's Dawn has Jaenelle domming Damien when he wakes her up by accident (and he almost needs medical attention after). And the default sexual position is female on top.

That said, there's a super strong sense of Warlord Princes generally being service tops

The menstrual issues might actually be my least favourite thing in the series, but I can handwave them by muttering grafted-on dragon behaviours and deal, most of the time. And clearly other people enjoy it, as your post demonstrates, so I'm glad someone gets something out of it beyond frustration.

It's not necessarily the pampering itself--I like reading it a lot but it's very much kind of a hurt/comfort fantasy thing--but what it represents. Historically, menstruation in most societies (not all) has ranged from 'ignore it' to 'send them to live in a hut far from the village so as not to contaminate everyone'; PMS and various side effects of people's period's range from jokes (bad to offensive) to denial the side effects can be serious or even that they exist.

Things are (generally) better now (depending on location) but--if I said I needed to go home because I was sick after I ate something at lunch (or maybe first sign of the flu), no one would (generally) blink an eye. If I said I needed to go home due to intense cramping and tiredness, that would get judged, either because I'm a weak woman who can't deal with a tiny bit of pain or I'm being lazy and should take an ibuprofen and power through.

While no, I wouldn't really be into being told to go to bed and read for three to five days, menstruation not being treated like a character flaw would be nice. So it's soothing to read about it being not only acceptable, but even encouraged, to slow down and rest a while, maybe take the day off.

[krait]

To be fair, for a book series that's this goddamn sexual, there's actually not that much explicit sex. However, I think Twilight's Dawn has Jaenelle domming Damien when he wakes her up by accident

I don't necessarily want explicit sex; just some guy dropping an appreciative comment about his wife's new riding crop, or showing up to breakfast and having to sit rather gingerly and everyone knowing/assuming why would do! We get all this worldbuilding on how males naturally want to submit, and then you give me service tops? Come on, Anne Bishop, stop teasing! :D

So it's soothing to read about it being not only acceptable, but even encouraged, to slow down and rest a while, maybe take the day off.

I can see that. I think I'm primarily bothered by the worldbuilding (menstruation causes loss of power for three days? WHY?) and the reactions of the characters (they reject being fussed over, for the most part), so for me, "this is a time when you're physically vulnerable and men get to tell you what to do" isn't fun reading. But I do remember that several Ladies did enjoy the fussing after the three days of vulnerability was over, and yeah, "I could rush back to work right now, but I'm going to sit on the sofa with tea and a nice book instead (and everyone's fine with this)" is a pleasant thing to see happening to a menstruating character!


...I really need to make myself a Black Jewels icon! How do I not have anything even vaguely related? :/

[thornsilver]

I guess to each their own. If someone tried to treat *me* like that when on my period, they would die, jewels or no jewels. :P

[krait]

Pfft, you and me both. :D

All I generally want is a functional painkiller - well, what I actually want is a hysterectomy, but I'll settle for a painkiller - and being left alone. But I'm glad someone enjoys the pampering!kink in the series.

[devon]

I have no idea what your menstrual situation is, of course, so this may mean nothing to you. When I got the Mirena IUD (plastic with a microdose of progesterone), it stopped 90% of my cramps. It also stopped 80% of my bleeding and about 50% of my mood swings. YMMV, etc. I'm happy to discuss it if you're interested.

The books sound weird, but I am def not one to throw stones when it comes to reading problematic fiction!

[krait]

All I want for the entire thing to be gone. No stopgap measures, nothing that can be removed or undone or have even a miniscule chance of failure. There's a raft of reproductive, political and gender-perception issues involved for me, but they boil down to "I do not want this" and the only real solution for that is removal.

The books sound weird, but I am def not one to throw stones when it comes to reading problematic fiction!

Oh, yeah. The menstual thing weirds me out (the more you think about it, the more it runs counter to the general tone of the book and I find the fussing!kink annoying) but pretty much the entire rest of the series is made of my id, or else of odd plotholes that tempt me to fill them with fic, and I love it. :D It is the Problematic Canon of my heart and has been for over a decade. ♥

...Man, why don't I have a Black Jewels icon??

[thornsilver]

The menstual thing weirds me out (the more you think about it, the more it runs counter to the general tone of the book

I don't really think it does. Witches are supposed to be all powerful, ext., but Bishop makes them sexually vulnerable. Have a bad first time sexual experience? Lose your magical powers. Having your period? Using your magical powers is almost impossible. Pregnant? Use your power and lose your baby.

All I want for the entire thing to be gone.

I am fluctuating between "Can't wait for menopause!" and "Not looking forward to other side effects though..."

[seperis]

I don't really think it does. Witches are supposed to be all powerful, ext., but Bishop makes them sexually vulnerable. Have a bad first time sexual experience? Lose your magical powers. Having your period? Using your magical powers is almost impossible. Pregnant? Use your power and lose your baby.

I could say she was trying to balance the genetically-mandated matriarchal nature of society by giving women a vulnerability to offset their political, social, and power domination. I'm not, though.

You're going to laugh, but--having read most of her books? Her hard kink is hurt-comfort combined with service top and I do mean hard.

She's into all of it, but her id slams the fuck down on strong/independent women with one or more physical (and mental!) vulnerabilities surrounded by two (or more) extremely strong/powerful men/man-shaped-beings who on the appearance of this vulnerability immediately forget every fucking thing else and spend literally all their time worrying about her, making sure she's fed, well-rested, comfortable, and unstressed, and wanting to/nearly managing to/sometimes succeeding in murdering anyone who makes her sad.

In Black Jewels, she had menstruation and pregnancy and murderous Warlord princes to work with; in the Others main series, a goddamn blood prophet who could only prophecize--and literally get off--by having her skin cut (and whose blood made the Others super happy and sleepy and cuddly, I am not making this up) and who spends pretty much all five books of the main series being followed around by up to a pack of werewolves who--surprise!--want to feed her, want her to rest, put hats and coat on her when it's cold and threaten each other when one of them makes her sad. In Lake Silence, it happens again, and thsi time, she doesn't even bother with going anywhere near so much as mkaing out or even sexual desire; two thirds of the way through the book, the heroine--who has clinical anxiety/panic attacks--has a vampire, two were-soemthings, and a magical human man all worrying over her feelings and why yes, seh does get majorly injured at the end of the book and needed a vampire to take care of her and nurse her back to health.

Bishop doesn't write a lot of actual sex, which on one hand considering the nature of The Black Jewels books at least is weird as fuck but--maybe not? If you mentally count up how many goddamn times women are being offered plates of food and stew and snacks and blankets and sweaters, being carefully and adoringly nursed back to health after terrible injuries, urged to take a goddamn nap, read to, and surrounded by worried men ready to kill anyone who makes her frown, etc and assume each and every one is actually hard kink, the books are non-stop porn. All of them.

[thornsilver]

No, that's it, exactly.

Grace Borrowes has a thing about hair brushing. Laurell K. Hamilton has a thing about painful sex and long hair on the men, and Anne Bishop has that thing with the powerful men doing... whatever the hell it is.

[krait]

in the Others main series, a goddamn blood prophet who could only prophecize--and literally get off--by having her skin cut (and whose blood made the Others super happy and sleepy and cuddly, I am not making this up) and who spends pretty much all five books of the main series being followed around by up to a pack of werewolves who--surprise!--want to feed her, want her to rest, put hats and coat on her

Okay, this is hilarious! I've only read the Black Jewels books, not her other novels, so this is news to me and also oddly delightful.

I've always felt that the Black Jewels novels were Bishop singlemindedly pursuing her id in the face of a market that doesn't cater to it, and now I'm even more convinced.

I support her pursuit of iddiness even when it's not my iddiness. At least I can just mutter Grafted On Dragon Stuff when we don't match up.

My id is much more aligned with the bits where Jaenelle notices somebody has stew, and eyes them like a rabid wolf spotting a lame deer until they back away slowly without turning, so it's harder for me to see the id value in the endless scenes where he hands it over immediately. You're right; once you're looking at the right angle, the porn is everywhere!

[krait]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Females are better! Females are stronger! Females are naturally dominant!

Except if femininity is natural and powerful, why does everything feminine oppose that power? If a witch's power is an intrinsic and normal thing, it shouldn't be so severely affected by a normal bodily process. Witches don't lose their power when they lose a limb, so why a hymen? Witches don't spend the first three days of a headcold unable to use magic, so why menstruation? The strength of a witch's Jewel doesn't affect how often she gets heartburn or the flu or how brittle her bones are, so why does it come with a guarantee of dysmenorrhea?

It's a strange and unsettling reflection on female 'empoweredness' when being physically injured or ill doesn't make a woman fragile, but a basic female life experience does.

I am fluctuating between "Can't wait for menopause!" and "Not looking forward to other side effects though..."

Haha, yeah, I fluctuate between "might as well have the ovaries out, too," and "but the menopause side effect, though." (Not that I can afford to have any of it out, but I keep dreaming. I wish there were low-cost spay clinics for humans!) Early menopause might be worth a zero risk of ovarian cancer, but then again, who knows what the hormonal changes would bring on?

[elf]

I found the Black Jewels series a bit more than a year ago and slammed through them all at once. (And since I have them as ebooks, I have no solid awareness of where one book ends and another begins. It's all one long story.) I think I noticed them because they show up as a Yuletide fandom.

I've been thinking of rereading them; first I'd want to combine them into One Big Omnibus Ebook because ereader navigation software is terrible. Or maybe one ebook for the big series, and a separate one for the "Invisible Ring" trilogy, because otherwise I wouldn't know where to put it.

I haven't read any of her other books; this is a nice reminder that I should look for them.

[krait]

Oh, man, this would be a fun series to do a major reread on!

I found them back when there were only three books, but I ploughed through them all in about a day and a half. They're just like that! :D

[seperis]

We could always do a group re-read. Though now on re-read, the whiplash between teh tone of the first book and the rest in teh series is--yeah.