joker (joaquin phoenix)

Okay, so the trailer for the Joker movie (Joaquin Phoenix) is totally not what I expected.

Joker

the worst part about having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don't

This can't be as good as it feels like it might be.

Comments

[rheasilvia]

That would look like a potentially amazing movie - if it wasn't about someone who we know is going to end up as an unequivocal villain. I can't imagine them changing that, and considering that, this is actually somewhat alarming, because it may once again end up painting mental illness as a threat, and equating murderers with people with mental illness (depression, looks like).

Like making all of the gay characters evil, in Gotham. That is not representation.

But maybe I am too pessimistic... I hope so! Because it certainly does look amazingly fresh and interesting.

[seperis]

I don't disagree with your overall point--at all in any way--but Joker has always been mentally ill. Even if it's just ASPD, that's mental illness (possibly with psychopathy depending on timeframe). And honestly, it looks like he might survive, and as I can't have mentally ill heroes that survive, mentally ill iconic villains work for me right now.

It'll honestly depend on how they do the film, but this just isn't what I'd expect from a Joker movie on any level.

[rheasilvia]

Joker has always been mentally ill

You know, you're absolutely right, and that honestly didn't even occur to me when watching the trailer and thinking about how different and new it was.

I've been puzzling over this for a bit, and I think that I never actually understood the Joker's insanity as "real" mental illness before on a gut level - the versions I've seen (though I havcen't seem them all) seemed so over-the-top to me, in the typical cartoonish way, that I didn't perceive it as any more real than alien death rays and laser eyes and shapeshifters and whatnot.

So because this does seem to be trying for a more realistic depiction, and I don't trust TPTB in any way, I am very wary. But I certainly do hope this is a positive development!

[out_there]

I... have my doubts about it, honestly. But at the same time, if it has Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn appearing in there, I'm probably going to end up watching it.

[seperis]

That's the other Joker movie. This one looks like it may be set a generation earlier.

[out_there]

I'm kind of amazed there's two Joker movies at the moment. And that this one -- now that I've had a chance to watch the trailer-- reads more like a personal drama set in the 70s than a comic book /superhero movie. That's interesting.

[argentnoelle]

I found the trailer kind of baffling, but mostly because it was about the Joker. There are other Batman villains that I feel could carry that kind of story much better, ones where the humanizing element is a more key aspect to their character, but the Joker's biggest character trait is that he's somewhat inhuman; there are even so many versions where he's not insane, but just a psychopath who's taken advantage of the system in order to avoid the death penalty. I guess what I mean by that is that I have this fear that in focusing on what they're doing, they might make him out of character? Not that Joker & mental illness can't be done, and well, both in some comics and in fanfic - and even in the Telltale games, where that was handled pretty well with John Doe/Joker, but if that's the whole focus of the movie, I feel like there might not be room for Joker to be, well, Joker.

And also... for something about such a purposefully humorous villain, the movie doesn't actually seem like it will be *funny* at all?

(then again, I am pretty biased to btas-style version, like where he used to be a gangster or some kind of criminal, not just a regular guy)

[seperis]

And also... for something about such a purposefully humorous villain, the movie doesn't actually seem like it will be *funny* at all?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The takes on Joker over the last three decades have played with a much darker iteration of the character. Humorous would not describe Heath Ledger's performance (Suicide Squad, maybe).

[argentnoelle]

Yeah... I guess that's what I miss though. I wish the live action movies would let Joker be a little funnier. (& that doesn't mean he can't be dark at the same time!)

[ratcreature]

I'm not sure I want a movie that makes me sympathetic to the Joker. I would like other Batman villains much more for that.

[musesfool]

Yes, this.