on fic, beloved dw circle

Am now on The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club but only because I'm in a novel place not a short story place so jumped Book 4 (Lord Peter Views the Body).

This is actually not a problem?--but a thing that comes up every so often in professional fic; short stories, even the best ones, do not generally give me time to immerse when I feel the need to vacation there. The only person I can think of that doesn't have this problem--with caveats--is Stephen King because generally a.) he's probably the best ever at making a character in under five hundred words and b.) fuck knows where this shit is going and I'm Ride or Die.

However. This doesn't happen with fanfic. Yes, I prefer long fic (>50K, pref >100K) but in general it takes me a thousand words to complete my dive and honestly, a decent writer can do it in probably 500 words and doom me.

You're thinking, well, yes, that's your fandom--ah, no. During certain bleak moments in my life I was hitting rageprufrock's back catalog of some Canadian??? series on a boys' private school????? No idea, but about three hundred words, I was committed and read them all and suffered for one almost having to not go to McGill except he got to somehow?? (and looked up McGill as well. It's a private college). Before you think "okay, that's an elite fanfic writer thing", no, I've gotten mistakenly--so very mistakenly--in ways I regret every time I close my eyes--into badfic against my better judgement because they learned the five hundred word trick and I'm trapped in horrified reading of things that require trigger warnings and maybe a competent therapist to mediate the discussion and we are so not talking about it.

(This does not refer to to that one I talked about involving six characters all played by two actors in multiple separate media including a made for tv movie about a real life serial killer brought together into a murdery five/sixsome bloodsport thing with claws and gods and ironic justice (sort of). That shit was fucking awesome and that reminds me its time for my annual re-read of that series. Yes, series.)

It's like this; the difference between X Professional Writer and DarthVaderLovesKenny2312 is the former I may and probably will read all their fantasy series but probably won't really care about their literary fiction about professors and dogs and playing piano in the suburbs whatevers but the latter, I may very well read a Star Wars/South Park crossover even though I hate South Park because I did like their Sheppard/Ronon fic back in the day. And if they start writing The Room/Goodfellas, I'll probably at least check it out warily.

Why, I'm going to guess: much like any creature, profic (with amazing exceptions) is really good vicadin and fanfic is straight-up fentanyl--(baby, we went beyond China White years ago and into the synthetics)--and this particular lab rat is now accustomed to getting one fuck of a hit from their reading material. The sheer amount of fanfic means I can find something tailored to my taste and better, most fanfic writers are super fast at picking up and learning exactly how to apply those delicious delicious patches to our quivering flesh (fentanyl, I mean. What did you think I meant? Because probably that, too).

It's only in retrospect that a.) this is obvious and b.) kind of incredible.

Think about it. Online, with only the power of feedback and breathless adulation, we can train hundreds of thousands of people to produce regularly and consistently exactly what we want to read in exactly the format we want to the point we will read shit we don't even really know the canon for and not really care. And there is so much of it we can actually say "well, just the ones where Kenny tops" and that will happen. What I can't tell you is what exactly that is. We can train writers to do it; I was trained, you were trained, all of us were trained. But what specifically it is, I'm not sure, but it works.

(It's not just a question of access and availability and amount; I own everything by Georgette Heyer except her mysteries because I bounced hard. (Maybe after Peter Wimsey I may go back and try again.) A fanfic writer that I like has to hit one of my hard 'no's' before I walk and they have to kind of jump on that button. A fanfic writer that I love has no 'no's'; they have a 'short delay before I give up and go back'.)

Yes, I was doing some cleaning today, why do you ask?

Comments

[alassenya]

I'm a die-hard Heyer fangirl but even I have to admit that her mysteries, although technically excellent, leave me wanting emotionally. I would have loved her to produce more crime-romance novels, like The Talisman Ring or The Reluctant Widow, but maybe the contemporary feedback was that readers wanted more conventional romances. I'm thankful for the ones we have, anyway.

[xenakis]

I read Transformers robot sex fic because it was astolat. My trust in fic writers run deep.

(Also: McGill is a public university, not a private college! But that reminds me that I still haven’t read pru’s Bruno and Boots fics, and I probably should!)

[thornsilver]

Astolat's fiction yanked me into Transformers fandom, and I am still bitter about it.

[prettyarbitrary]

Wait, Astolat wrote Transformers fic? My god, how did I manage to miss this?

I gotta go do a google search.

[(Anonymous)]

https://archiveofourown.org/series/877425

--thornsilver

[seperis]

Astolat is a gateway drug.

[prettyarbitrary]

Astolat: A gift to all lovers of good writing. A living nightmare for productivity.

[seperis]

BRUNO AND BOOTS YES!

(Correcting McGill; that is how little I know other than "gosh they're cute" and one fic that involved a super fancy house.)

[azurelunatic]

THERE ARE MOVIES NOW.

[elizaria]

I am now very curious about

six characters all played by two actors in multiple separate media including a made for tv movie about a real life serial killer brought together into a murdery five/sixsome bloodsport thing with claws and gods ..

Pls tell me more.

And fanfic and profic hit completely different areas in my brain, and I love them both for such different reason :D

[dorkael]

Seconded. I have a mighty curiosity, if nothing else.

[alyndra]

I will fucking third this. :P

[seperis]

I'm going through my bookmarks this weekend; I just realized when i got a new computer, I got fancy with recategorizing. I'm ninety percent sure I got it off the DeanCastiel mailing list but only ninety

[elizaria]

:D

[toujours_nigel]

I have read everything you and astolat and rageprufrock and cesperanza and leupagus have ever written, so uh, yes.

[seperis]

Thank you!

[out_there]

I am with you on that. I don't quite know how it's done but it's amazing that did writers learn how to give me the exact emotional cues I need to get hooked and it works so well.

Well enough that books I really enjoy tend to feel like published fic in my head. I'm thinking of The Hunger Games and the Rivers of London series, both series that focus on a tight third person POV, who follow that character and how they see the world, and basically hit that emotional response that I associate with fic.

As opposed to a long fic I'm currently reading (out of stubbornness at this point) that feels like a published novel, and that's not a compliment. The pacing is too focused on plotting the action; there's too much detail and scenes from secondary characters POV (whan I don't care about those characters) and it's an effort to finish.

But it has made me realise that what I love about fic is the close emotional tie to a POV character and getting to find out how they feel about the world and people around them.

[prettyarbitrary]

This is one of the things I love about good fiction too, pro- or fan-. It's such a rush to live vicariously through a character while they go through things that I, safe on my couch under my fuzzy blanket, will presumably never have to face for myself. But on the flip side, while I'm borrowing their life, I don't have to think about things like grieving for lost pets or dealing with bureaucrats who want me to do all their work for them or worrying uselessly about climate change.

[out_there]

Oh, yes, that's it exactly! I want to live in that other person's head for a while, and have some space from my own little things while seeing how they deal with these Great Big Things! That's exactly it.

[hopelessheathen57]

I think you're right about familiarity with the canon characters not actually being the biggest factor in the appeal of fanfic. I stopped reading new paperbacks a couple of years ago (I think the last one I read was "The Martian" by Andy Weir, and that one has the fastest hook I've ever seen in a work of fiction--sentence #1 and I was in), and my reasoning at the time was that I had grown too impatient with having to slog through the inevitable early introduction of the characters before even knowing whether I would care at all about the conflict. But not knowing any of the characters or background didn't stop me from getting seriously, deeply invested in literally hundreds of Teen Wolf and Shadowhunters fics over the last year without ever having seen a single episode of either show. I know all the characters now, having learned about them the same way you learn about any character in a novel--by reading how they interact with each other and with the events of the plot--but I still don't know what half of them look like, and I don't even care. I didn't get into those fics because I liked the shows. I got into them because their immediate set-ups were just dripping with that suspenseful borderline sexy-horror stuff that I like best and because that pay-off started within the first couple of paragraphs in each story.

[thornsilver]

I notice this problem when I am reading a long running pro book series. Yes, I know who the characters are and what their background is, ext., and I have read ten books in this universe before... and I still have to force myself to care. WTF

[seperis]

But not knowing any of the characters or background didn't stop me from getting seriously, deeply invested in literally hundreds of Teen Wolf and Shadowhunters fics over the last year without ever having seen a single episode of either show.

Exactly. Pretty much in any megafando, I don't need to know much going in; I'm going to find fic I like that drags me in immediately without even a clear idea of what the characters look like.

[northern]

<333 this fic thing we all have together.

[bratfarrar]

a) Thank you for convincing me to read Heyer--I recently cried over the ending to "A Civil Contract", which I was not expecting. Apparently my weakness is people successfully choosing to make the best of a difficult situation and finding a quiet, shared happiness.

b) While I enjoyed the one mystery I read by her, it was definitely a more surfacy experience than most of her period pieces, though I can't put my finger on what the difference is.

c) Three days ago I would've said I was sort of cycling out of reading fanfic, but last night I stayed up until 2:10 AM reading Batman fic, so what do I know. I do appreciate how professional short stories can focus on doing just one thing in a concentrated fashion, but I won't just pick up a set of short stories--has to be by someone where I've already thoroughly enjoyed their novels. Sayers, for example, uses them to explore oddball one-off scenarios that could never fit into a larger work. And that's fun, but a little hit-or-miss.

[venetia_sassy]

That's a very interesting comparison and I'm realising it generally rings true for me as well. Hmm.

If you ever try with Heyer's mysteries again (which I greatly enjoy) stay away from Penhallow. She wrote it to break a contract and it is one of the most depressing books I've ever read.

[kiratael]

And there is so much of it we can actually say "well, just the ones where Kenny tops" and that will happen.

My forehead actually hit my palm at this line because it's TRUE. It's true. I have waded into AO3 armed with a new fandom and set of search parameters because I KNOW IT'S IN THERE AND I WANT IT.

A fanfic writer that I love has no 'no's'; they have a 'short delay before I give up and go back'.)

YES. When I've found a writer I like, especially a prolific one, I'll do several passes through their work: stuff in the fandom featuring my favorite characters that aligns with my own headcanon, stuff in the fandom featuring my favorite characters but with pairings and headcanon that isn't mine (yet), stuff in the fandom, then it's on to the crossovers (if available), and the next thing I know I'm weighing commenting on their Gundam Wing pastry shop AU rare-pair fic from 18 years ago because maybe that's creepy? But maybe not.

[thornsilver]

Fucking this.

[seperis]

ALL OF THIS.

[hlagol]

You are so correct. Hard to downgrade to a less potent drug, when the good shit is plentiful, searchable, free, and part of a community to boot!

[seperis]

Thisss. Community is the best part!

[hlagol]

I recognize that I might be high on the temporary burst of DW activity, but yes, yes it is.

[marycontrary]

I remember when I loved every fanfic written for my OTP; I wish I could get that back. I just... happy people, happy relationships, coffee shop AUs, I am delighted everyone can have nice things they like! But I feel like fewer people write "I love you and I'm really fucked up about it" "I'm jealous as hell but I find not-stupid ways to express it or bottle it up" "there are actual good reasons this isn't going to work, have some angst" and my very favorite "poly will solve this but MAN are we all going to have to work to get there, plus also so very many action scenes and explosions" are rarer and sometimes the target of fandom crusades. Bleh. I kind of wish I were moving with the zeitgeist so I could enjoy whatever is most popular this year.

[grammarwoman]

I feel compelled to mention once more how much I missed your posts like this. :D

[prettyarbitrary]

This does not refer to to that one I talked about involving six characters all played by two actors in multiple separate media including a made for tv movie about a real life serial killer brought together into a murdery five/sixsome bloodsport thing with claws and gods and ironic justice (sort of).

I had to stop, go back and reread this because I was absolutely stunned so much had managed to happen in a single sentence.

[seperis]

It is a beautiful sentence. It's also accurate in some but not all of the particulars because more detail, I start sounding like I'm on a very questionable trip.

[prettyarbitrary]

That isn't actually making me LESS curious.

[writerlibrarian]

Heyer's mysteries are very average compared to Sayers. I suggest maybe trying Ngaio Marsh or much better Sherry Thomas' Lady Sherlock series. it takes Sherlock Holmes and twists it sometime 180 degree, sometimes just enough to make you smile and nod, oh I see what you did here. Thomas' series is mystery with a light touch of romance, very light.

[seperis]

Noting those down now. Thank you!

[janne_d]

You might also like Margery Allingham's books about Albert Campion - they are set in a similar era and Campion is also from the aristocracy, though he describes himself as an adventurer rather than detective. He's in a different social position to Wimsey though as he's walked away from his family and Campion is actually a pseudonym. I would say the books are a little lighter than Sayers (the ones I've read anyway, which is about half) - off the top of my head, I would rec Mystery Mile, Look to the Lady, Police at the Funeral and Sweet Danger.

Speaking of favorite fanfic authors...

[oligomer]

Can I ask about DtA? No pressure or worries, but I have your entire fanwork collection on an annual reread,and just started book 3 to help me cope with a job transition. Glad you're updating your blog again!

Re: Speaking of favorite fanfic authors...

[seperis]

Yes, it still exists in mulitple books. I just had a lot come up last year that caused problems.

[unavee]

But what specifically it is, I'm not sure, but it works.
It's baffling, amazing, and wonderful. The question of what it is definitely flickers through my head whenever I stay up much too late... clicking another 50k+ word count link... in a I-don't-even-go-here fandom....

we can train hundreds of thousands of people to produce regularly and consistently exactly what we want to read in exactly the format we want
I think you're right that this must be a component of it. As AO3 searching becomes better and better, and tagging evolves, I cannot imagine how I could ever go back to not being able to chase any stray interest or trope that I feel like reading and getting immediate (or at least some kind of) gratification.

[seperis]

YES! It's not that profic can't do it, but pro writers aren't writing I>for me, so to speak, they're writing for a massive audience, and it's great but lucky there's a perfect overlap.

Fandom generally has better overlap by default, I think.

[linbot]

I agree with you so much about how amazing it is that we have this enormous library of wonderful stories in the AO3. I tried to explain my problem with reading profic to an RL friend recently and was left floundering with "I hate that scene where the POV character looks at themselves in the mirror and we have to listen to what they look like." This post has given me a bunch more reasons to explain my complete inability to connect with most profic.

I've started searching out a lot more profic written by fandom people and that tends to be more accessible to me, emotionally, but there's still definitely a gap.

[seperis]

"I hate that scene where the POV character looks at themselves in the mirror and we have to listen to what they look like."

Why is that A Thing with profic? It jumps out at you like the most awkward form of infodump possible.

[silverflight8]

Kinda bit also not. The emotional buttons get hammered real hard by fandom, but I've always been kinda adjacent because what lj dw ao3 are into, I'm not super into (the shipping preferences, the media etc). And though the barrier is lower to fic because length and online availability (hold lines at libraryyyyyy), quality is so variable, 99.9% I get more out of reading a novelist back catalogue than fic. It's always been fandom scratches a profic induced itch than fandom introduces me to this. It's just...way more ultimately fulfilling, idk. I don't read much fic anymore, which is a bit sad I guess.