for flowerbeds are like conversational death traps

Personal and cultural awareness thought, via FFA:

I was a cultural awareness class (nothing to do with Poles specifically) that had an example of the 'spaces' differences leading people awry. There was a hotel that had people constantly falling into their flower beds, till they investigated some and found out that it apparently occurred when persons accustomed to wide space interaction and persons accustomed to small space interaction met. The wide space people backed away to get more space and the small space people kept following to maintain the close connect. Eventually the wide space people ended up in the flower beds. - Nonny, FFA

I'm trying to decide if I'm Person Who Falls Into Flowerbed or Person Who Pursues Person Into Flowerbed and it's a toss-up. I think I would be Falls-Into-Flowerbed, but social anxiety can and does nail me into position every so often (it's random) where an earthquake wouldn't move me and you might crawl in my lap (not that I'm against this) and I won't move to save my life.

I'm also from the South, so I'm used to small space interaction to the point I have no idea if I naturally like it only that my body automatically assumes that position and God help me. The South (or Texas) also has the time-honored tradition of gossiping at the correct decibel so the person beside you (ie Gossip Subject) cannot hear, so there's that.

Currently, I'm breaking into hysterical laughter at the idea of watching this in action at this hotel. It's like everyone's in an unwitting horror movie lead-up, and half of them don't realize they're Michael Meyers slow-stalking the person who has no idea they're the latest victim until flowerbed dive.

So are you Flowerbed Michael Meyers or Flowerbed Victim One (or are you the Flowerbed of Retreat??????)? It's Friday and I literally cannot think of anything more useful to do with my time than get an answer to this pressing question.

Comments

[ivorygates]

Victim One!

[seperis]

Dude, me too I think. Depending on where I am, I'd be hitting that flowerbed completely surpised while I squish the roses.. *g*

[ivorygates]

Ouch.

Yes...

[jesse_the_k]

Absolutely. And if the flower bed has a low wall, I'll crash right through that as well.

[ivorygates]

oooooooooooooooh BONUS WIN!

In high school, while running in place in Gym Class [this is my story and i'm sticking to it], I tripped and fell backward over a "balance beam" that was sitting out. I did something amazing to my ankle, and I was in a cast for four months. I am sure if there is a low ornamental wall no higher than eight inches around this flower bed, I can repeat that triumph.

[lilacsigil]

Straight into the flowerbed, because I'm also twice as clumsy when nervous, and in social interactions I'm almost always nervous.

[niqaeli]

Flowerbed victim...ish?

I mean mostly I don't back off, but I also don't pursue people because wtf. And depending on who was doing the personal space pursuing, yeah, I might fall into the flowerbed.

Though more likely I'd just dodge and get the hell out of there at a quick march. (Remind me to tell you about that time I literally ran the fuck away from someone at a con, if I haven't already. I am quick as fuck and reasonably good at dodging.)

[inoru_no_hoshi]

I am... honestly not sure? I do tend to end up fairly close (read: within 5 feet) to people when in-person interacting, but that's because I can't hear/read lips with as much accuracy from further away. But on the other hand, social anxietyyyy, and also I don't like to make anyone uncomfortable. I'd honestly probably try to take my cues from the other person(s). (Which usually ends up with me being quiet and nodding a lot and eventually feeling "augh I am the worst conversationalist. FLEEEEEE.")

[seperis]

Sorry, put this in the wrong thread!

I didn't think of that.

I do have a coworker who is deaf in her left ear and uses a hearing aid there only when needed (most of the time it's turned off unless she needs it on for a reason). However, it's basically something I don't think anyone really thinks about anymore, just when we need to talk to her, approach on the right and get her attention first before talking so she can focus on us. Generally, by habit, we stick very close to her until the conversation is over completely (ie, no talking while walking away or across the cubicle farm).

I completely didn't consider that as another factor in small versus wide space people.

[inoru_no_hoshi]

...That anonymous comment you just got was me, I didn't notice I wasn't logged in. /o\ *stumbles after tea to try and finish waking up*

[cyprinella]

I once had a hilariously awkward encounter with a woman who a) spoke very quietly and b) had an accent I wasn't familiar with who kept stepping away when I tried to move closer to hear her better. We had to have moved at least 10 feet before it was over.

[green_grrl]

My first instinct is to say flowerbed victim, because it is soooo easy to picture that socially clueless person getting closer and closer—run away! But if it's someone I'm really clicking with, closer doesn't bother me. I have the hard-of-hearing thing, too, but I tend to keep my body far away and bend forward at the waist, ear-towards-mouth, and then straighten back up again. No inching my whole me forward.

I'm also from the South, so I'm used to small space interaction to the point I have no idea if I naturally like it only that my body automatically assumes that position and God help me.

Hee! Regionalism makes it all relative. Like the difference between a "slow" talker and a "fast" talker in the South versus in New York.

[reginagiraffe]

I always say, "I don't talk too fast, they just listen too slow." :D

I suspect I would be a flower bed diver. More than once I've had to verbally ("Could you please back up a step or two; you're looming and I don't like it.") or physically ("Oops, sorry for putting my elbow in your solar plexus, I didn't realize you were that close.") get people to back off.

[seperis]

Argh,comment below was meatn for person above you. This comment was for you!

Hee! Regionalism makes it all relative. Like the difference between a "slow" talker and a "fast" talker in the South versus in New York.

Me, my sisters, and Child speak our own language according ot people who know us when it comes to speed. Apparently we lose all the consonants when we really get going.

[domarzione]

I am nominally a flowerbed victim because I really can't deal with people in my personal space, but I'm also a lifetime resident of a dense urban environment and commute twice a day in overstuffed tin cans we call "rush hour subways." I can slip through a crowded pedestrian pathway like a greased eel because I walk extremely fast and judge gaps well; it's how I get around tourists and smartphone users on the sidewalk. So I am probably going into the flowerbed (or into the street, as my case may be) on my own volition, but stepping right back on to the pathway past the offender, muttering darkly under my breath the entire way as I leave them in the dust.

[seperis]

So I am probably going into the flowerbed (or into the street, as my case may be) on my own volition, but stepping right back on to the pathway past the offender, muttering darkly under my breath the entire way as I leave them in the dust.

I just broke into laughter imagining you grimly stepping over the flowerbed edging deliberately and staring at the uncomprehending speaker before escaping. Thank you.

[domarzione]

... that's more or less what happens. :) Except for the times when I march defiantly into the street and glare at oncoming cabs to get out of my way. (NYC secret: the cabbies are crazy, but blood on the grille hikes their insurance. Bus drivers are unfireable and are driving the biggest vehicles on the road. They are the true road bullies and nobody effs with them.)

[marycontrary]

I think this is more a cultural body language thing -- for example, the different conversation space for the Japanese vs the Americans. I saw a senior American military official almost lunge at a senior Japanese official in front of news cameras, because neither of them were professional diplomats and didn't know why they had to keep moving. It's way less about personality/comfort space than it is about the message you're trying to send the other person: the American was unconsciously trying to say "I want to have a comfortable, professional interaction" so he kept closing, and the Japanese was saying "I want a comfortable, professional interaction" so he kept trying to give the other person space. I think the stuff that walks you into the flower beds is much less "you intimidate me" than it is "I need to communicate with you clearly." It's failing because they have different body language dialects.

[seperis]

Yeah, I doubt it's intimdiation and I bet half hte time it's not even conscious until someone goes head over heels into the daisies wondering wtf.

[green_grrl]

Also in that same question, this thread:
http://fail-fandomanon.dreamwidth.org/107140.html?thread=536976516#cmt536976516

LOLing!!!

[seperis]

THE FRENCH I KNEW IT.

I love FFA's threads.

[the_shoshanna]

I think I might be either, depending on circumstances?

What really drives me bananas is people who want to be standing at an angle to me, instead of facing me, while we're talking. Like, I want us to be like this: | |, but they seem to think we should be like this: \ /.

So I keep turning to face them: //

And they keep turning further away: /_

And we end up turning in circles. ARGH. Why won't you stand still and look at me while you're talking to me?

[seperis]

Ooh, in my LJ someone mentioned just that!

Comment: http://seperis.livejournal.com/1007503.html?thread=26918799#t26918799 (last one in that entry)

Now I have imagines of people just barely avoiding the flowerbed while performing a small localized rotation. Thank you. This has made my night.

[terrio]

::raises hand::

This is hugely frustrating for me because I am in a wheelchair; trying to hold a conversation with someone who is standing beside me and maintain some degree of eye contact is a shortcut to a cricked neck. But when I move to face them, they immediately start scootching around toward the side again....

I saw a PBS show a number of years ago where they were studying how two guys position themselves for a personal conversation, vs. how two gals do. The guys tended to sit next to and angled towards each other; the gals tended to sit directly facing each other. The degree of intimacy of the conversations were about equivalent, but the guys just did not like sitting face-to-face. I do seem to notice this happening more often with men than with women, but I'm not sure if it's just that I notice it more, or if it really does happen more. Have you noticed anything similar?

[nagasvoice]

Facing somebody flat-on means you have to back up to do anything about a third or fourth person coming up on you. It puts your friend in the way of moving effectively. The flat-on stance is a gesture of trust in your surroundings, nothing to do with your intimacy with your friend. The only time I use flat-on is when I'm in a very safe environment and I need to focus completely on the person I'm talking with, if they are in great distress, or if I really need to watch them closely because I am having trouble understanding them or I don't trust them.
In open public areas with uncertain circumstances (I see people getting arrested by police on the mall on a fairly regular basis, as an example of the stress level I'm talking about) while I myself am talking with somebody I know fairly well, I will stand at an open angle to my friend, looking past one of their shoulders, while expecting them to watch past my near shoulder. If I see an eye tracking movement from my friend, I know I need to swing around and get a better look. The open angle is to allow me to swing around and move quickly.
If we were standing near a wall, we would be positioned facing outward, and watching sideways past one another.
This is just basic defensive awareness behavior 101.

[ellixis]

I do this. I'm terribly sorry. In my case, at least, it's generally because I feel crowded and want more space in front of me, but if I back up the other person will follow, so I turn to allow myself a comfortable amount of space while not backing up. I'm still looking, though, I assure you!

[the_shoshanna]

What I generally do when I feel like the person talking to me is getting too close to me is -- well, I suppose sometimes I fall into a flower bed, but at other times -- I take a stance with one foot well forward, and my weight on my back foot. So I'm planted, but they can't get closer to me, because my front foot is claiming that space, while my torso and head, where I feel "I" actually am, is further back. And we don't keep either turning in circles or falling into flower beds. Might that strategy work for you? Or would that still be uncomfortably close?

[the_shoshanna]

And now I've followed the link seperis gave to the LJ version of this post and realized you were the commenter there that she mentioned! Hee. If we ever meet, we can sit back to back on a double-sided sofa and converse away *g*

[ellixis]

That sounds quite comfortable to me! Hee!

[out_there]

I'm probably the pusher, rather than the pushee. I tend to stand back in crowds of strangers, but when I know someone well and/or am gossiping, I probably stand a little too close.

[kira_dark_wing]

It really depends on the person. If it's someone I know, and trust, closeness is not really an issue I think about, but if it's a stranger, I'll do pretty much anything to keep a distance even going arse over head into the flowerbeds.