star trek: in darkness speculation

Because reasons: io9 breakdown of trailer

Okay, Ami hit me with this in chat and if this happens? I will send JJ fruit baskets forever, okay. FOREVER.



amireal: I'm hoping it's a misdirect AND an iconic moment? Becasue I mean, I expected to be annoyed by reboot but then they made it THE SAME UNIVERSE ANYWAY
amireal: and I was happy
amireal: Spock tries to use genesis device on new planet and dies - hence Uhuru looking distraught and Kirk talking at funeral (Kirk is still junior - he'd only talk at the funeral of a crew member, not another officer). After a while Kirk/crew realise that Spock is still alive on planet and go renegade to get him (hence odd scarfs etc on Kirk and Uhuru). When they get to planet (red 'thread's are remnants of genesis) they discover not one but two Spocks - one from Spock's Vulcan DNA, one from human DNA. Let's call them Zach and Ben. Zach is now a more traditional Spock - the emotion from the original movie is now gone - and Ben is all the evil emotion and primal urges. Crew rescue Zach but for some reason Ben is left behind to fester. He meets Klingon, fights leader, wins and takes over Klingon ship before heading to Earth to get his revenge. From then on it's a standard who'll win, oh the good guys kind of plot.
Seperis: Now that is...interesting.
amireal: right?
Seperis: Oh dude.
amireal: or it could be sybok
Seperis: OH DUDE
amireal: *KOFF*
amireal: dude?
Seperis: DUDE
Seperis: SYBOK SURVIVED?
amireal: I dunno
amireal: ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE
amireal: he was older, already an outcast
amireal: I believe he left the planet
Seperis: I like th dou ble spock theory
amireal: maybe he went to get his ears tweaked b/c he hated vulcan so much@
Seperis: That would be intersting.
amireal: *nodnod*
amireal: omg
amireal: wiatwait
amireal: if its sybok
Seperis: Two. Spocks.
Seperis: No, ti's personal
amireal: no wait, nevermind rthat didn't work
amireal: but yes
Seperis: Sybok has no personal ties to Kirk
amireal: that
amireal: OKAY NO
amireal: wait
amireal: If it's two spocks
Seperis: The double spock theory is--workable with teh personal.
amireal: and the second, more emo
amireal: is getting revengve for say
amireal: AMANDA'S DEATH
Seperis: Being left behidn by his BFF?
amireal: THIS IS WHY WE DO NOT SEE CHECKOV
Seperis: Holy. Shit.
amireal: Because I think it is v strange we have not seen him
amireal: ghtggf
amireal: RIGHT
Seperis: Nine minute trailer will tell us
Seperis: OH MY GOD I AM GOING TO GO INTO HYSERICS
amireal: I know I know, patience
amireal: BUT STILL
amireal: *HOLDS YOUR HAND*
amireal: I may need to medicate myself for the 9 minute trailer
amireal: seriously I will bet you your midnight star trek tickets that Checkov not being in the trailer is a Thing
Seperis: REvenge for Amanda.
amireal: they even have a random scotty scene
Seperis: And Revenge for leaving left behind.
Seperis: HOly Fucking shit.
amireal: *NODNOD*
Seperis: THIS WILL BE EPIC
amireal: I AM A GENIUS NO?
Seperis: OH MY GOD THE SLASH
Seperis: THE SLASH
Seperis: You'd do anything for family --- AMANDA
amireal: frankly I'd be shocked if sybok wasn't mentioned b/c I am v. sure he's already off planet
amireal: even by the time Spock is BORN
amireal: which means his timeline is mostly undisturbed
amireal: OMG
amireal: SYBOK TEAMS UP WITH SOMEONE
amireal: okay no, now I'm getting wacky
amireal: SYBOCK IS PETER WELLER THE OLDER ADVISOR
amireal: ahem
amireal: ...I think I need some tranqs
Seperis: Can I psot your theory?
Seperis: In my LJ?
amireal: sure!
amireal: I may even participate in the convo

Comments

[amireal]

Note: The initial chunk of words with the theory about two spocks was mostly gotten from an io9 commenter.

Also, I think this is plausible as a sybok (omg he was kinda wacked in the head) or a TWO SPOCKS DUELING OMG deal.

I have thoughts! It's so nice to have thoughts again!

[synecdochic]

I am more intrigued by the theory of many IO9 commenters that the Frumious Bandersnatch might be playing Gary Mitchell.

The blonde does look a lot like Elizabeth Dehner.

[seperis]

I love the Gary Mitchell for Reasons, so many reasons. And it woudl make so much sense.

[synecdochic]

Yeah, I actualfax would've loved the show where Gary and Elizabeth were the recurring antagonists ala the Q Continuum throughout the entire Star Trek run, man. SO MUCH POTENTIAL THERE.

[seperis]

...I would love that, now that you mention it as a possibility. That's--wow.

[synecdochic]

I actually think Q was at least a subtle "hey, you know, there was potential there that we kind of threw away, wasn't there?" Whether they knew it or not.

(I might be influenced by Strangers from the Sky being one of my favorite TOS novels.)

[amireal]

You know, I would not be shocked if that's where Q (them and whatisface stuck in the baroque period of all places) was inspired by.

[synecdochic]

Trelane, the Squire of Gothos.

I didn't have to look that one up, either. *hangs head*

[amireal]

*points down!* I really did used to know that one without looking it up! See depression as being the only reason you are a lone nerd in this conversation!

[seperis]

Q was complex for me because only sometimes was there reason for him not to snap the universe into the way he wanted it to be. I could get teh entire pet thing he had going on with humans sometimes, but sometimes, I needed better reason for it than "Oh, human pets!" when he was pissed. I loved him like a lot, and most of the time, the attitude really worked well. And sometimes it just--felt like he was not doing snap-all because he wasn't doing snap-all, and that was annoying.

[amireal]

For me, it was sort of, as much as Q liked to talk about how omnipotent they/he were, there were still immutable laws they had to obey or they would simply shred the space time continuum to pieces. At least, that's how I always explained WHY they didn't just DO things instead of sort of hinting obliquely. I still think the borg thing was 1/2 OMG YOU PISSED ME OFF and 1/2 this is for your own good b/c if I don't it's much, much worse.

[amireal]

Oh I totally agree that Gary Mitchell is an equally compelling theory, especially with the blond haircut. I just, need more plot for the revenge for family to work b/c the original GM plot line was not... that. So for now I shall speculate faaar and wiiide until the trailer with a modicum of more facts comes out. *G*

I am also v. intrigued by the complete lack of Checkov. Everywhere.

[synecdochic]

You watch, this is going to come out and we'll ALL BE WRONG and it'll be some villain that was never in TOS. *laugh*

[amireal]

*nodnod* Completely! Or, you know, someone's second cousin, mentioned in a throw away line somewhere but because of ALTERNATE TIMELINE MAGIC they now play a crucial role with the magical ability to parallel pivotal moments in the Prime timeline.

*koff* Honestly, I'll be happy if it's a trek movie that acknowledges some or all of the previous materials, even if they bring in new people. LIKE NERO WAS. *G*

[seperis]

I like the twist idea with JJ--taking what we know and what we thought of the known and twisting it backward. The two Spocks or two Spocks with Mentor!Sybok just kills me, or even a Mentor!Khan in place...I mean, no matter what he does, I don't think I'll be disappointed.

That final thing about family just--it makes me think about the connection between Cumberbatch!character family and Jim's family = his crew. It's one of the reasons my dream would be that Kirk is the one killed in this movie and next movie is getting him back somehow.

The red planet is freaking amazing. I mean, just for that, I love this movie. It's gorgeous to look at.

Also--thematically? An entire redshirted planet. Which JJ Abrams would totally go for symbolically.

[amireal]

The only other canonical revenge person I know of is the guy who got Kirk court martialed. Who they all thought was dead. (Not even Roger Corbin I think really gets the revenge thing, though in canon so far we have more than GM as a background for a revenge plot at all. But that does not mean JJ can't create it for GM!)

I do think it'll probably, especially with the family talk, be someone already part of the fabric of the universe as we know it.

[synecdochic]

Ben Finney. And his daughter Jamie, named after Kirk.

...it is kind of sad that I know this without having to look it up.

[amireal]

Hee. If it makes you feel better, if I hadn't just spent 9 months clinically depressed, I'd probably have remembered as well? My memory goes when we don't have the depression under control so characters that aren't talked about ALL THE TIME get forgotten. Also now I really want Kevin O'reilly to appear. ]

...and now I'm thinking about that Kodos. And how this could TOTALLY be a kid who Kirk was taking care of during the massacre and he blames him for the death of his family. That would satisfy the requirements of it being tied tightly to the trek universe AND it easily being a new character.

[synecdochic]

Oh, *man*, something having to do with repercussions for Tarsus would be fucking amazing.

[amireal]

*nodnod* SO MUCH. I always felt they never really explored this part of Kirk's past enough, EVEN in the books. That'd make a great movie backdrop. Hell they could even parallel it with some of what we're talking about in other threads. The redshirt planet, the idea that maybe carol marcus's research is being implemented WAY early to recreate a vulcan homeworld (and Spock Prime should know better but he has 100 years of science on Carol's original idea and maybe there are REASONS) and, and, and, STUFF. Cool STUFF.

[synecdochic]

Man, if they did something like that, they might even get me to stop ranting for fifteen minutes straight about how reboot Trek destroyed everything that made Kirk my favorite captain :P

(seriously, people, yes, you can mock Kirk for being a womanizer and a cowboy, but the point is that he can be a womanizer and a cowboy because he is that fucking good at what he does, not a lazy slacker fuckup, and okay, new universe new characterization but do NOT expect me to like this lazy slacker fuckup anywhere near as much as I like the guy who is actually really fucking good at what he does and worked goddamn hard to get to where he got. *pant pant pant*)

[amireal]

Heh, I always characterized New!Kirk as so fucking smart but without giving one damn fuck at all but wanting to be more! And then when he got the chance, he still didn't give a fuck and decided to expand his philosophy to prefer to look like and be thought of as a slacker and then sucker punch the assholes when it'll do the most good.

And a good exploration of tarsus could add a lot of depth to the new kirk characterization! Man now I hope the movie is about Tarsus. Oh BC could even be Kodos's kid! Instead of the daughter who tries to seduce and kill Kirk! It's the son who tries to (seduce! COME ON YOU KNOW IT WOULD HAPPEN) and kill Kirk! And everyone he ever loved!

[synecdochic]

Man, even if we're totally off base, somebody should totally write that story.

[amireal]

Yes. Yes they do. I also call NOT IT. Though I'd be happy to provide ALL THE SOURCE MATERIAL EVER.

And now, just to get crazy, Kodos's kid can team up with any of the following: Kahn, Joachim, Sybok, Random Terra Nova dude who is Kahn's G.G.G. grandkid, Finnegan, Roger Corbin, JANICE LESTER OMG HOW COULD I FORGET HER???

...I still wanna know where Checkov was.

[amireal]

Terra forming as an answer to food shortage, is what I was trying to say there! *G*

[scy]

*raises hand*

You're not the only one.

[synecdochic]

I'm so comforted to know that I am among my people.

[scy]

:)

My dad's nickname for me is Number One.

[seperis]

Dude.

Khan--KHAN--mentoring Evil!Spock! TWIST HELLO.

Jesus, that would be epic.

[amireal]

Or Kahn mentoring Sybok! Remember, he's full vulcan so he can easily be 20 - 30 years older than Spock and still look the same age!

[synecdochic]

Also--thematically? An entire redshirted planet. Which JJ Abrams would totally go for symbolically.

Oh, that's *awesome*.

[seperis]

After years of VVC and luminosity's panel on color in movies, the grey of Kirk and McCoy and Uhura up against the red of the planet? That's a hard contrast, especially since grey is--apparently--mourning. Mourning for a dying redshirt planet, maybe?

Also, another interesting thing--Spock is wearing black like Cumberbatch. There are no scenes of him wearing grey--which here is apparently mourning--but black, vengeance. It's also one of the reasons the Two Spock theory is interesting for me--well, and Trek leather-pet jokes aside, black mirroring between Cumberbatch and Spock. The io9 screenshots are very interesting to look at from that point of view, especially Spock in the volcano, red-orange of rebirth of Vulcan, maybe? A redshirted planet indeed.

[scy]

Hmm, the rebirth of Vulcan would be interesting as well, but I am hoping that they establish firmly that the crew is a family, and that this is one group where you do not want to fuck with anybody's relatives.

[laurajv]

I'm really hoping -- like, even in the new timeline, I can't see how Khan works in (either he's still asleep, or the timeline change woke him up early, & if something bad happened as a result of that, why is he not blaming some Romulans? he's a megalomaniac, not wackadoo).

[nomoreuturns]

I don't know if you guys have seen the teaser trailer on the iTunes site (link), but we see Chekov for about two seconds there, from 00:43. You...may want to brace yourselves.