cbs's elementary just got very interesting

Posted on ff_a (I find in general news gets there faster than pretty much anywhere):

I suddenly find my interest in CBS's Elementary, the Sherlock reboot, going up. Like a lot. I would likely watch Johnny Lee Miller as Holmes because I'd watch Miller as Man Who Watches Paint Dry for two hours because I had a deep and meaningful experience with Hackers in a movie theater at a formative age. Lucy Liu I have loved since she first showed up on Ally McBeal and managed to be super, super quirky and abrupt and fun in a show where everyone doubled down on quirky like a lifestyle choice. And I really can't talk about my feelings about that show because for the life of me, I'm still confused, and I watched it to the bitter end.

(Short version; it was brilliant and annoying and stupid and I loved it and it made having a soundtrack and background singers to your life perfectly normal. I can honestly state it did a lot to make me a lot more comfortable with the fact that certain points in my life I walked into meetings comfortable that hearing Eye of the Tiger as I stared my presentation was a-okay. Hearing Bodies Like Sheep during other meetings, however, might be more questionable. And I admit that it was unnerving to test programs to the complete Eminem collection even when it pretty appropriate, all things considered. I have feelings on Ally McBeal. Like a lot of them.)

It'll be annoying if they try to force her into the mold of Person Who Keeps Genius Grounded, but her general work outside of Ally McBeal tends me toward the idea that she's a skilled enough actress to make it far more nuanced than it would seem to be.

I may actually end up watching this really enthusiastically just on the strength of this casting and how Liu and Miller will interact with each other.

Comments

[lilacsigil]

I love Lucy Liu (and am quite fond of Jonny Lee Miller) but I suspect this is a move to get rid of all those icky gay rumours and have a Nice, Normal Heterosexual Show.

[seperis]

I commented below on this, pasting here, because I agree--oh do I agree--but a secondary fallout from doing it this way:

You know, you hit something with that, especially if they do go the romance angle; it's a very specific kind of commentary on television--and hell, society--that apparently it is only joint penises that inhibit true love. Literally, with this translation, the only reason Watson and Holmes aren't doing it is because they're the same sex. And yeah, basically would confirm years of subtext of yeah, that potential has always been there after all if all you need to do to make it work is flip one character's sex/gender.

I mean, it kind of kills the entire "BUT IT IS NOT THERE AT ALL EVEN IN POTENTIAL" when, literally, the only variable difference is a female Watson. If it's perfectly workable as a romantic pairing once Watson is a woman, then Holmes/Watson dynamic in male/male form does have that potential.

[lilacsigil]

I absolutely agree, but this year, finally, I gave up on subtext, around the time I watched X-Men First Class. I just want some text, dammit. Not Moffatt's "tee hee, no, that would be ridiculous", not "they're OBVIOUSLY doing it", not "they're the most important person in the world to each other so it's LIKE a relationship", though I still apparently have a soft spot for "both actresses stating that they see their characters as romantically involved" (Warehouse 13). X-Men First Class broke something, I think. But that's absolutely my issue, not everyone's!

[seperis]

No, I get you, totally. Off the top of my head the only one I can think of that was popular in the mainstream is Jack/Ianto from Torchwood that had some of the conventions of a television romantic relationship, and an ongoing relationship that was also treated as part of the show both upfront and background; ie, treating it like it does any romantic relationship.

Secondary or tertiary character same-sex relationships seem to be showing up more, but Child, who watches even more than I do, brought up that there aren't many, or any he can watch easily, shows about kids with same sex parents (ie, he watches a lot of Disney channel with my niece and pretends its' because she's making him). He goes to a school that's both minority white and possibly majority Muslim, so I tend to trust his perspective; that kind of discrepancy between television and real life is something any kid in that age group wouldn't be able to help but notice.

(Leaving out shows that are about queer issues or focused on queer-issues/etc, which are a different category, though to be honest, when I was first watching Queer as Folk as a clerk, pretty much everyone who had cable watched that show either regularly or ocassionally, and none of them were fannish, so I wonder if it's popularity was a lot, lot, lot more 'mainstream' than it was generally conceded to be.)

[innocentsmith]

I...will definitely totally be watching this pilot, now. I'm not sure that it'll actually be any good, mind you, but now I like both of the leads, and while I'm sure a lot of people will be complaining about stunt casting, I'm all in favor of canon genderswaps and chromatic casting. Not that I wouldn't have been even happier if both of them were female and/or POC, but at least it's not yet another Two White Dudes In Their 30s Do Stuff Show?

And while you could argue that it's just a way of avoid Teh Gay, I think that just by existing it actually could potentially work to implicitly queer the hell out of all the other representations of Holmes and Watson, especially if there's any hint of canonical Holmes/Watson. And if they're just BFFs, well, I'm all in favor of close platonic male-female friendships, too. (I imprinted hard on Mulder and Scully back in the day, what can I say?)

So yeah. *cautiously optimistic*

[seperis]

while I'm sure a lot of people will be complaining about stunt casting, I'm all in favor of canon genderswaps and chromatic casting.

So much this. And every time I hear that, I keep wanting to ask 'think about what it means when the idea of a POC woman playing an iconic character is so unusual it's stunt casting?' Like, that says so much about the world that choosing a non-white male character is considered a stunt.

And while you could argue that it's just a way of avoid Teh Gay, I think that just by existing it actually could potentially work to implicitly queer the hell out of all the other representations of Holmes and Watson, especially if there's any hint of canonical Holmes/Watson.

You know, you hit something with that, especially if they do go the romance angle; it's a very specific kind of commentary on television--and hell, society--that apparently it is only joint penises that inhibit true love. Literally, with this translation, the only reason Watson and Holmes aren't doing it is because they're the same sex. And yeah, basically would confirm years of subtext of yeah, that potential has always been there after all if all you need to do to make it work is flip one character's sex/gender.

[petronia]

I'm seeing potential for great good and also great evil here. XD

Lucy Liu would make an excellent Watson if they emphasized the kick-ass/medical expert side and not "Holmes' long-suffering Asian wife" as a friend put it (then again, if one was aiming for that, why cast Lucy Liu). Although I have to question at what nebulous point your show stops being about Holmes and Watson and starts being about a detective-and-sidekick duo inspired by the Holmes-Watson relationship; I still can't get over it not being set in London, I think, that's a far greater hurdle to me than any genderswap.

Also, if her name is actually going to be "Dr. John Watson", will the character be biracial? (Per anyone I know who looks Chinese but has a WASP full name.)

[feanna]

I'd still prefer it if they'd sexswapped Holmes, so that there's no potential for the men-logic, women-emotions thing (along with the male-main character, female-sidekick), but I'm willing to see how this turns out now. If they emphathise Watsons badassness and doctorness, then this could be good.

[skadi.livejournal.com]

I would likely watch Johnny Lee Miller as Holmes because I'd watch Miller as Man Who Watches Paint Dry for two hours because I had a deep and meaningful experience with Hackers in a movie theater at a formative age.

YES. THAT EXACTLY.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Hackers changed lives, yo.

[mardia.livejournal.com]

This casting is making me really curious to see this pilot now. I mean, I think nearly everyone groaned when they heard that CBS were doing a Sherlock remake, and there were a lot of people bitterly complaining about American TV ruining brilliant British television (never mind that that argument is overly simplistic and ignores the brilliant television that America has, and the shitty TV that the Brits have).

But this casting is VERY promising. I like Miller, and I've enjoyed Lucy Liu for a long while now (you may laugh, but her comic timing in Charlie's Angels was AWESOME) and you know what, people can complain about canon and whatever, but given the current state of television and Hollywood right now, I'm not turning up my nose at the thought of a female POC actor being a leading character on a major network right now.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I'm not turning up my nose at the thought of a female POC actor being a leading character on a major network right now.

Leading character and a major iconic character at that, which makes me admire CBS's decision to really seem to try to expand this particular box. Holmes is both literary and pop-culture iconic, so the casting choice is, at least to me, an excellent opportunity to expand on the definition of iconic characters; ie, White Male does not an icon make (and is irrelevant to whether the character is awesome or not).

And Lucy Liu, at least for me, has always played parts with a level of individualism that makes them hers; I'm kind of giddy to see how she plays Watson. They're both such good actors, I have to see their chemistry when they work together.

The more I think on this, the more excited I get.

[cathalin.livejournal.com]

Oooooh, very promising indeed!

Also bwahaha Eye of the Tiger when you walked in to do presentations YES.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I find myself walking in cadence with the beat.

[perriotoi.livejournal.com]

I hadn't realized that CBS was making their own version of modern Sherlock (I always sigh a little when Hollywood/American TV companies feel the need to remake what are really popular non-American TV shows [or even movies]), but the inclusion of Lucy Liu as a Watson makes me really excited for this! I would pretty much watch anything for Lucy Liu just because I love her and her characters so. Too bad they didn't go all the way and recast Sherlock as a woman too!

[yinkawills.livejournal.com]

'...there were a lot of people bitterly complaining about American TV ruining brilliant British television (never mind that that argument is overly simplistic and ignores the brilliant television that America has, and the shitty TV that the Brits have).'

You're right. There's a lot of brilliant American tv- Game of Thrones, anyone?- and a lot of shitty British tv(almost all of the Reality shows...and some of them were exported to the States).And I say that as a Brit.

But the dismay is not unfounded. CBS tried to licence Sherlock from the Beeb, wer refused, then came up with this.If they'd cast Liu as Sherlock, THAT would have been innovative. As it is, there's a danger that they'll flatten the relationship into a will-they-wont-they tease, and have Liu as a helpmeet.

If it was HBO, I'd have more faith.

Its been pointed out elsewhere that US tv already has a Sherlock. He's called House...

[cellia.livejournal.com]

Yes, I worry about the woman=helpmeet aspects too.

Still, it is always cool to see more women in potentially cool leading roles, and the casting looks cool, so... *crosses fingers*

[effervescent.livejournal.com]

House is ending this year, though, so. Maybe this show will at least attempt to be awesome?

I have all of these concerns as well, but I'm still really excited to see what they do with it. :D

[kernezelda]

Mmm, Johnny Lee Miller in Hackers. "I don't play well with others."

[eponymousanon.livejournal.com]

I'm torn! I like Lucy Liu and appreciate having a POC female in a leading role, but... genderswitching just one character makes me think that CBS took one look at the "bromance" in both the movies and the BBC Sherlock and said "how do we not have that? I know, make Watson a woman and keep the UST".

[winterlive.livejournal.com]

...girlwatson and it's lucy liu?

.......god DAMN it.

[tavella.livejournal.com]

I'd be more thrilled if they reversed it, with Liu as Holmes, but it at least is a new approach. And maybe means they avoid the misogyny and racism of the BBC version.

[trobadora]

!!!!!!!!!

You're right, it just got interesting. This is the first thing I've heard about it that made me actually want to check it out!

[archaeologist-d.livejournal.com]

I'm concerned they will utterly destroy a good idea. I'll watch it with some trepidation. Sorry but Sherlock has pretty much spoiled me for any other Holmes interpretation.

[inu-spockya.livejournal.com]

better'n what happened to me one year -- working as a janitor at a school at the time, caught meself one day, trucking down the hall wi' a mop-bucket and singing "I'm a Little Teapot".

*doublefacepalm* you've met me, lass -- it doesna help at all that I *am* rather short and more'n a wee bit stout. yeah I was on the good shit for a rotten tooth, but *still*. Eesh. the Horror. the Horror...

as for this show, meh. like both lead actors but not thrilled wi' either the genderbend (Starbuck I admit kicked ass, but usually genderbent stories make me cringe), or the fact that it's cbs, champions at pulling defeat from the jaws of victory. ew. now if it was gonna be done by hbo or showtime, someone with a good track record, that'd be one thing. but cbs?

hopefully I'll be wrong and it'll kick ass. I'll be surprised if it works out that way, but also pleased.

otoh -- just for ogle value, yeah, an ep or two, until I canna handle the writing any longer. or just kill the sound and watch to some Queen. hmm. now that's an interesting thought...

[inu-spockya.livejournal.com]

hmm, that made more sense in me head. power went out between writing and posting and my system forgot which message that was supposed to be a reply to.

*facepalms again* ah the joys of snow country (after a bone-dry winter, now we get snow. figures, eh?)

lemme know if this thing on cbs turns out to be any good, yeah? might go looking for it then. XD