Wednesday, May 14th, 2008 10:07 pm

right. well. no ponies.

What madelyn said..

This would probably be a good time to be snotty or passive aggressive, but honestly, I don't see the point. God will not, and Hillary will not, give me a pony or a dozen virgins if I sit around snarking at the other candidate or my fellow Ljers who support them. Politicians are perfectly capable of running their own negative campaigns without my assistance.

From: [identity profile] leupagus.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 03:19 am (UTC)
*gives you a really really little pony.*

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 03:21 am (UTC)
Is it a My Little Pony? *worries*

*pets pony* I should have used my pony icon.

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From: [identity profile] leupagus.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-15 03:27 am (UTC) - expand

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From: [identity profile] kassrachel.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 03:24 am (UTC)
Yeah, but what would you really do with a dozen virgins anyway? ;-)

(In seriousness, I find that I don't mind when folks leave their squee un-cut-tagged, whether it's about Hillary or Barack, but I always wish the vitriol were cut-tagged. More squee usually improves my day, even if it's for characters or a fandom or a candidate to which I am not personally attached; more vitriol pretty much never does.)

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 03:26 am (UTC)
God, yes. I like the squee! (Provided it's not like, eight pages long or whatever), but the mocking et al I can do without.

(I'd make a volleyball team of virgins, of course. Very popular on the circuit.)

From: [identity profile] amireal.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 03:29 am (UTC)
You know, I'm seriously undecided on a lot of levels, I have no investment in either candidate the way some of the other people on my flist do-- and yet-- yeah the vitriol uncut is very-- offputting. And it could be that my flist is just heavily Obama centric, but I have seen a whole lot more Hilary hate than Obama hate so it's certainly influencing me (and probably not in the way some people might want) in ways that I don't like. That said, I welcome happiness and squee. I'm cool with that.

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From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-15 03:30 am (UTC) - expand

From: [identity profile] leupagus.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 03:34 am (UTC)
The thing that's bothering me is all the passive-aggressiveness. I defriended a few people just tonight - people whose fic and artwork I love! - because their posts have become so distasteful. Suuuuuck.

That said, I think it's cool that at least people are talking. Even if it's vitriol - which I don't like when I'm looking for mindless slash porn - it's passion, people getting worked up about politics. When's the last time that happened, and not in the sense of, "Goddammit, President Bush seriously needs to go choke on a pretzel." People think the next president could make a difference in the world. I can't think of the last time people were thinking like that. It's cool.

But seriously, guys, your vitriol is getting in the way of the buttsecks!

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From: [identity profile] kassrachel.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-15 03:41 am (UTC) - expand

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From: [identity profile] leupagus.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-15 03:46 am (UTC) - expand
ext_841: (wilde (revised by sparrowhawk))

From: [identity profile] cathexys.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 03:34 am (UTC)
yup, that's it exactly!

i love squee everywhere (politics, fandom, folks I like and don't like). The vitriol strikes me as more personal, bc at that point it's a small step from X is an ass to those who support X are asses, y'know...


btw, i'm holding off on S2, so lemme know when you get there :)

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From: (Anonymous) Date: 2008-05-15 03:26 am (UTC)
What I find ironic is that Obama wants to keep the old politics out of it, and yet some of his supporters don't. Either they aren't really listening to him or they don't really believe him.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 03:28 am (UTC)
Honestly, with everyone, it's so much habit to slam the opponent/mock the opponent instead of praising the politician desired that I'm not sure most people notice they're doing it anymore.

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From: [identity profile] amireal.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-18 12:01 am (UTC) - expand
cofax7: climbing on an abbey wall  (Default)

From: [personal profile] cofax7 Date: 2008-05-15 03:55 am (UTC)
This is why I started [livejournal.com profile] ostrich_2008, so I would have a politics-free zone.

Which reminds me: I need prompts. I suck at prompts.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 03:59 am (UTC)
God, that looks like *such* a good idea.

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From: [personal profile] cofax7 - Date: 2008-05-15 04:03 am (UTC) - expand

From: [identity profile] skadi.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 04:04 am (UTC)
I support Obama, but the amount of vitriol and misogyny leveled at Clinton absolutely disgusts me. It makes me want to bang my head into a wall.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 04:06 am (UTC)
God, I know. Some of it's been creepy and I'm not even sure the people saying it are aware how it sounds. *sighs* I seriously don't understand the negative campaign concept at all.
I watch your elections with interest and a bit of fear because we are, in so many ways, tied to you.

Still, I think there's a huuuuuuuge difference between sparing feelings over disagreements in plot and characterization in something that is, ultimately, not likely to have a significant impact on the early 21st century; you can afford to let things slide.

Not sure if that can apply in politics. I think people need to be passionate and intense and most importantly well-informed of itty-bitty details. Facts, actions and history should be more than adequate; slagging is perhaps excessive force. But I do believe the analysis has to be cutting, has to be ruthless ... both for who you favour and those you do not. And I think people need to see what others are worried about, if only to further their understanding of why they support the candidate they do, in the face of those concerns.

The only thing that bugs me are personal attacks. One does not KNOW the candidates for the most part, so it all seems rather odd. Hell, I used to KNOW my MLA and my MP personally, and I still didn't get into the "good guy/bad guy" thing. I just looked at how they did their jobs.

In summary: Politics is weird, it makes rational people weird, and it seems to be the new bloodsport, which is just... odd.

B
I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But honestly, negative ads suck, period. Discussion and analysis are fine. But I honestly don't see any good reason, other than smug superiority, to have most of teh political posts talk about the suckiness of the other candidate in the manner of a tabloid newspaper. It's not just offensive, it's off-putting and frankly, it's hostile to those who do support the other candidate.

Still, I think there's a huuuuuuuge difference between sparing feelings over disagreements in plot and characterization in something that is, ultimately, not likely to have a significant impact on the early 21st century; you can afford to let things slide.

Not sure if that can apply in politics.


Er. I'm pretty sure [livejournal.com profile] svmadelyn didn't say anything like that or asked specifically that people should *not talk* about it? I thought she said she just wanted the negative cut-tagged so as to see less of the Candidate X sucks.

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From: [identity profile] mz-bstone.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-15 05:35 am (UTC) - expand

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From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-15 05:52 am (UTC) - expand

From: [identity profile] tygress.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 04:45 am (UTC)
Here. Have a pony:

Image
Photo from here (http://www.darkhorsecollectables.com/index.html) (for credit if you actually use it! ;) )

Back on topic:
I have always held to the belief that even though yes, it is my journal and yes I should be able to post what I want in theory, in reality, it just doesn't work that way and things like my politics, my religious beliefs and discussions about sexuality have always gone under cuts... or just been marked private or filtered to a select few. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to be an asshole.

This election especially, I don't feel obligated to express my opinion because I don't favor ANY of the candidates and my vote will be a wasted one anyways.
edited at: Date: 2008-05-15 04:46 am (UTC)

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 07:05 am (UTC)
OH LOVE. *GLEE* That is *awesome*. *bounces*

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From: [identity profile] tygress.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-15 08:37 am (UTC) - expand

From: [identity profile] darkrosetiger.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 06:38 am (UTC)
There's someone on my flist who's a big Clinton supporter. I love her dearly. So when she posted a rant recently about Obama supporters, I skipped it--just like I skip any political posts from my gaming buddy the conservative Republican. But I'd never say that either of them should change what they post because it makes me uncomfortable. I don't quite get this idea that we shouldn't talk about things that we feel strongly about. I'm not going to stop criticizing Obama for letting a homophobe headline a campaign appearance just like I'm not going to stop criticizing Clinton for the racial dog whistles or McCain for enabling the debacle of the war in Iraq. And I'm not sure why I should need to.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 07:00 am (UTC)
I'm confused. I didn't--and I know madelyn didn't--advocate not posting anything, or even restraining what is posted (which--seriously, no), but to add a cut tag if something was going into the deeply negative zone.

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From: [identity profile] darkrosetiger.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-15 07:17 am (UTC) - expand

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From: [identity profile] ex-muj135.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 07:17 am (UTC)
I'm Swedish and my political views are so far left that given a choice I wouldn't want to vote for Clinton or Obama, so I have no stake in this race, but you know, I'm a woman and Clinton is a woman, and the snide remarks about her from people on my flist that I consider to be sane, level-headed people have surprised me and not in a good sense. Especially considering that seeing political discussion in among all the fannish stuff sometimes makes it feel as if Clinton is the icky, horrible woman who's coming between the men in that greatest of slash pairings - Obama/McCain - and the Clinton dislike is just more of that old tired refrain: "but the female characters are just so boring, who'd want to write about vote for them anyway?"

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 01:44 pm (UTC)
*chokes* Oh man. I totally did not think of that!

*dies laughing* And it's true. That's awesome.
ender24: (Default)

From: [personal profile] ender24 Date: 2008-05-15 08:12 am (UTC)
there were people asking god for a dozen virgins?!?
i am clearly in the wrong religion!

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 01:43 pm (UTC)
There should be more of that, yes.
ext_1771: Joe Flanigan looking A-Dorable. (Default)

From: [identity profile] monanotlisa.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 09:14 am (UTC)
God will not, and Hillary will not, give me a pony or a dozen virgins if I sit around snarking at the other candidate or my fellow Ljers who support them

What would you really want to do with either, anyway? My host parents in Georgia had a pony. I had a pony by extension. It wasn't all it's cracked up to be, man.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 01:43 pm (UTC)
Pony == Envy from other people.

Virgins == gimmicky volleyball team that will give Coke endorsements one day

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From: [identity profile] monanotlisa.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-15 01:45 pm (UTC) - expand

From: [identity profile] everysecondtues.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 01:29 pm (UTC)
I haven't cut my squee over Obama, but I will be cutting the posts I'll start making about my issues with McCain when the primary starts up. Mostly, I don't post about politics so much simply because I don't usually have that much of interest to say.

From: [identity profile] seperis.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 01:42 pm (UTC)
*nod* I tend not to post about it either; I already deal with it at work and at home, so by teh time I get to lj, I'm just not all that interested in repeating it all again. *g*

From: [identity profile] inthekeyofd.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 01:53 pm (UTC)
You know I'm getting sick and tired of them slamming her in order to raise him up..and god forbid you say something about him, it gets a little hairy out there.

Honestly, the really sad part, she won like every single big state..and they still don't think she could beat McCain.

From: [identity profile] mindyfromohio.livejournal.com Date: 2008-05-15 04:26 pm (UTC)
I live in Massachusetts, so it'll be totally safe when I write in Laura Roslin.

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