sgareview - irresistible, s3e3

So just finished watching SGA 3.3 - Irresistible.

Also, I haven't slept yet. I'm pretty sure I'm about twenty four hours away from a sleep-deprivation psychotic episode. I plan to use it wisely, by climbing up on the roof naked and reciting Mark Antony's funeral speech from Julius Caesar. Thank you English IV II Teacher for making me memorize that and use valuable brain space for a speech that I cannot now *forget* no matter that it's been twelve years OMG FOURTEEN YEARS I READ THAT DAMN THING IN MY SOPHMORE YEAR NOT SENIOR since I had to memorize it.

Right. Episode. This? Totally makes up for like, sleep deprivation, Misbegotten weirdness, and a fairly severe allergy attack.



1.) Lucius pleases me. I want to keep him and give him cookies nad make him walk on his hands. This ep was *fun*.

2.) Ronon shot Sheppard. I was so going to write Ronon/Teyla, but he has displeased me. Yes, he was under Evil Mind Control. Well, more like Grey Side of the Force Mind Control. But still. Grr.

3.) How did fandom *not do this first*? How? Did I miss it? *How did we not write this already?*

4.) Catwoman and Batman discussion. Which eerily and strangely, for some reason, immediately came to mind around the time that John wandered off to clean Rodney's quarters. Call me crazy. Anyone notice that? You know, after Rodney stating how hot it was that Catwoman got Batman to obey her? I'm just saying, if the writers don't want me to think they're fucking? Don't write it for me, 'kay?

Rodney in a catwoman suit, however, is forever branded into my mind. Dear God.

5.) John's cold. That was just cute in so many ways. I love him sneezing and sniffling. I want to bake him cookies. Lots of cookies. And soup!

6.) I am convinced that Lucius touched Carson inappropriately. Again, call me crazy. But that is the most chemistry I've ever seen him have with anyone. Plus, and this is just how they set up the scene, while John was teasing Elizabeth, Carson was *right beside her*. It's framing, but it just--goes those places. Also, the crying.

Note: John's reaction to Carson bursting into tears is priceless. I love it. Canonical crying!

7.) John and Rodney wandering off together to explore the universe look for gates. Researching mind control drugs together! Carrying on casual discussion about catwoman (see item 4)! The implication this is *normal conversation* for them that they carry on randomly! That will never stop being fun. They totally need to give up this hero gig and conquer the freaking universe already. John can bring Rodney pretty planets and ZPMs and lead very large armies while heavily armed. I'm just saying. It does good things for me.

8.) Minor mostly. Since when has Rodney backed down from Ronon? Seriously? That's twice in this ep, the second time implied by Rodney being forcibly held in Lucius' presence to absorb the drug.

9.) I have two choices on how to interpret Rodney using the drug, considering he knows the effects.

a.) He did it with Sheppard aware of what he was doing. Non-slashy, I could see Sheppard a little curious, since it seems to be a euphoric, and Rodney's a teammate and he trusts him. Plus it would totally be something Rodney and John would do as an experiment. Slashy interpretation--see above, but with sex. Very, very hot sex. Very, very, very hot sex. I like this one. A lot.

Plus, to get the serum, since it seems to work that effectively only in liquid form and consumed, he would have to *get it* from either Sheppard or Carson, and I don't see Carson handing it over to Rodney, so it has to be Sheppard who gave it to him, and Sheppard would be aware that the only person on Atlantis it could affect would be himself. Unless Rodney made the serum himself, for which he would need a lab and Carson's notes, see above. Possible, not likely.

b.) John didn't know and Rodney deliberately committed mental coercision without his knowledge. And considering that Rodney would be aware that Sheppard was the only one not innoculated, he took it with the intention of using it on John. I really hate this one. A *lot*. And not just because I can forsee horrifying non-con humiliation fic coming out of this episode (but I bet I can accurately predict that there will be at least three, probably seven, and at least one will cause me to lock an entry down that is nothing but ranting about how very much I wish I could spork my own eyes out. The rest will merely make me bitter and tired. Seriously, when it appears? Don't tell me. I want to live in blissful ignorance for as long as possible). Though I started twitching after my utter amusement of John running back to clean Rodney's quarters of his discarded boxers and empty lube containers. Cause wow, there were a lot.

To me, b isn't likely, but that has more to do with me simply unable to believe that Rodney, of all people, would ever do that to another person. I'm aware that the writers of this ep didn't angst mightily over that last bit and probably what they wanted to get across wasn't what I picked up with a twitch. I don't care. I seriously do not want to think Rodney would do that, so I won't

*reads above*

You know, it scares me that the ep I loved dearly. It's what fandom will do with that ending that scares me to death. OTOH--darkfic possibility. Hmm.

10.) New point. And interesting thought. I wondered about the divide of power between Elizabeth and John, and this seems to confirm something I half-way suspected from Hot Zone and from The Long Goodbye--that John can overrule Elizabeth on matters of security, or the military commander (Caldwell for The Long Goodbye) can make a unilateral decision regarding security, probably in a very narrow set of parameters. Maybe only internal or Atlantis security decisions? From the way Elizabeth reacted by not immediately overruling him, he *does* have that authority--and under the influence of the drug, if she had the power, she would have done it. Instead, she carried it out while John was gone. I need to go back and see what those eps would have in common with John ordering the DHD locked down and Elizabeth not contradicting him.

11.) And just for kicks--when pairing off on the planet, Rodney took the tall, willowy brunette and John the shorter blonde(ish). This is pretty much my entire reason I love being a slasher, right here. Despite Rodney's stated preference for blondes, it never stops being odd how he *homes in* on the brunettes, is it?

12.) I codicil 10B with this--if anyone wants to write Evil!Mastermind!Rodney using the drug to take control of John for wicked sexual purposes and to conquer the galaxy? I will totally write you porn of your choice. Maybe using the serum strips away ethics. No, seriously, *someone write this*. but you know, happy. With happy destructin and happy death and apocalyptic worlds afire and all. If you are actually surprised by that last statement, I am going to refer you to my definition of happyfic when I'm writing OTP fic.

It's a sickness, really.

Comments

[taraljc.livejournal.com]

I was so going to write Ronon/Teyla, but he has displeased me

*whimper*

but but but...

TEH HAWT SEX.

Richard Kind's character reminded me a wee tiny bit f Dom Deluise's character from SG-1, anoterh ep I have never understood the lack of post-ep and missing scene fic for.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Later, when I am less bitter for John's perfect chest all, all *stunned* and all.

[sp23.livejournal.com]

I'm ashamed of how much I ended up loving this episode when I had been predisposed to hate it.

I think Rodney *would* be afraid of Ronon when Ronon is not himself. Did you see the look on Sheppard's face when Ronon drew his gun on him? I said this in my own post about the episode, but he looked like a guy whose dog and had just unexpectedly snapped at him.

I adore 9a and totally want to write that story now. Would you be very upset if I stole borrowed your plot bunny?

[seperis.livejournal.com]

That is so not borrowing. That's practically *canon*. In the name of all that is holy, write it so as to counterbalance the horror of the many many bad b's that will come out of this.

Shoo. Why isn't it posted yet?

[enname.livejournal.com]

Friends, Romans, countrymen. Lend me your ears. I have come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.

*beats head on desk* I had to play Mark Antony in a school play and it hasn't left me either. In fact, I could quite possibly recite the entire play and stage it too.

Rodney in a catwoman suit, however, is forever branded into my mind. Dear God.

Oh, oh God. There are no words.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*facepalm* Why God why?

Yeah. *smiles* Rodney in the catsuit. All kinds of new experiences there. I wonder if he has the ears hidden anywhere?

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

As I so often do, I wonder what the hell TPTB were thinking with that last bit -- Rodney drugging Sheppard and making him "clean his room". Was it supposed to be a cookie for the slashers? Did they even notice the creepy noncon implications? I have observed that a lot of guys *don't* notice implied noncon (e.g. the way Cadman treats Rodney in "Duet").

Is there a heteronormative explanation for Rodney's behavior?

[seperis.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much why I'm going for Sheppard *knew* and they did it as an experiment. I can't accept that was supposed to be *cute* that anyone (Rodney) drugs anyone (teammate, friend, etc) into unwilling obedience for fun. Just no. Okay, I basically love Rodney and do not want to go to the place where he creeps me out.

In a word, no.

[akacat]

I think it's entirely possible that Rodney used the raw herb, without John's knowledge, to achieve that effect.

For Lucius, the raw herb got people to stop hating him; he needed the distilled potion to get people to moon over him.

John already *likes* Rodney, maybe a whole lot. Maybe Rodney offered John a blowjob in exchange for cleaning his quarters. Under normal circumstances, that probably wouldn't be enough. The herb just tipped the scales a bit.

[ileliberte.livejournal.com]

Ah but think of all the opportunities for Angst! Feelings of betrayal! Guilt! in stories with Ronon and John. Not only did he stun him, he pulled a gun on him before that, in the gateroom.
Lucius was fun but there was this undercurrent of skeeviness which might have been from the acting or just my feelings on the character, because six wives for a man who was apparently hated before? I am feeling happy thinking about what the women will do to him once he gets back to his original place.
John and Carson were great, I loved that little part with John smacking a sniffly Carson and roaring "Buck up!" Also, smart Carson for not giving away the game early.
With the ending, I feel like there can be equally bad fic with Rodney trying to use the herb to make himself popular because of course, underneath that prickly exterior lies a Sweet, Sensitive man who has been Betrayed one too many times in his previous friendships at a young age and so has donned a veneer of meanness that will save him from being betrayed ever again by anyone close to him. But now he wants to be liked again because he is Sensitive but he doesn't want to take the chance *emo tear* When confronted by John he will obviously break down and confess and John would be uncharacteristically chatty about his feelings and embrace Rodney as bestest friend (gen) or first ever and truest love (slash).
Also, with Rodney backing down from Ronon, I feel like it's not at all unbelievable in this context. Ronon is big, strong, dangerous, and Ronon at that point was also nuts and being egged on by Lucius. That things would go badly for an unwilling to co-operate Rodney was pretty much certain. Rodney is pragmatic.
Torri Higginson did a pretty great job, it was fun to watch Elizabeth being all giggly and silly and out of character.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

underneath that prickly exterior lies a Sweet, Sensitive man who has been Betrayed one too many times in his previous friendships at a young age and so has donned a veneer of meanness that will save him from being betrayed ever again by anyone close to him. But now he wants to be liked again because he is Sensitive but he doesn't want to take the chance *emo tear* When confronted by John he will obviously break down and confess and John would be uncharacteristically chatty about his feelings and embrace Rodney as bestest friend (gen) or first ever and truest love (slash).

I am so glad I know you are being sarcastic here. You know this is going to be written, right? You *know* it will be. Somewhere out there. And yes, there will be *emo tears*. From the readers as well.

Torri Higginson did a pretty great job, it was fun to watch Elizabeth being all giggly and silly and out of character.

That was totally fantastic. They were all on top of their game of goofiness. Just *amazing*.

[eretria.livejournal.com]

Obviously, John was bothered by the implied non-con of Lucious' behaviour as well, because ... did you see his face when Lucious said to him in the brig that he sometimes had all of his six wives at once? There was deep resentment there, as well as in the inflection in his words when he sai "Six wives."
John has deep non-con issues, that's what this scene said to me, and thus, I refuse to believe that Rodney tricked him into "cleaning" (which, really, is just such a nice metaphor for sex. "Rodney, let's go back to cleaning your room" is just the kids-friendly version for "Get back to bed, McKay, and pronto.").

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*Exactly*.

There was deep resentment there, as well as in the inflection in his words when he said "Six wives."

There really was, wasn't there? Hmm. Interesting. Disgust too.

[ileliberte.livejournal.com]

What? You don't think Rodney is just Misunderstood? I think I read a story where the explanation for his personality was that it was aimed at making people perform beyond there abilities and so the meanness was a deliberate act. Don't you love some Martyr!Rodney? I am totally abusing capital letters today, but this being the internet, and thus incapable of conveying tone, I would be rather horrified if any of what I said was taken to mean that I think so too :/
And yes, of course it's going to be written. How can it not be?

[ileliberte.livejournal.com]

Um, that was meant to post as a response to your response.

[sparktastic.livejournal.com]

Point 11--SO TRUE.

Much much love, this one. Also, Carson/Lucius--did you notice the first thing Lucius asked was 'do you like ladies?' and Carson's reply was just a *teeny* bit... well, defensive. 'Of course I do!' Basically, glee!

[siegeofangels.livejournal.com]

Maybe I was too tired, or couldn't quite make out the dialogue or something, but I totally read the last scene as John saying "Let's go clean your room, Rodney, because I totally know you hid some of the herb and I'm going to find it and get rid of it before you use it," rather than an implication that Rodney already had used it.

Is it a given that Rodney used the herb?

[farwing.livejournal.com]

Actually, that's how I read that scene too. I didn't think that John was already under the influence. (I am also way sleep deprived- maybe it's a sleep dep thing?) I'm going to have to go rewatch that scene when I'm well-rested.

[mneiai.livejournal.com]

Love this ^.^ You've made me think about some things in ways I wasn't, and that's just great. I very, very much want them to encounter an alternate universe where Rodney is the ruler of said universe and John is, like, his most trusted general or something. Even if it wasn't slashy in the least, it would still be so damn hot.

Parts of this episode totally made me think that they're playing it up for the slash fans. Someone told me they did that once in SG-1--had O'Neill step out of an office and Daniel followed behind him naked and wrapped in a flag, or something. So it's not like it couldn't happen.

I think there is a mid point between 9a and b, in that Rodney could have gotten ahold of the drug and used it without John knowing, but if he and John were already in a relationship where they liked to experiment with weird alien things (because, really, I'm sure they run into lots of weird alien things that could be used for sexual purposes), then it wouldn't be against their relationship's rules, or whatever. I mean, this is assuming that Rodney would take advantage of John sexually...he might not be that forward and instead just have John clean his room in his underwear, or something. Lots of bending down and stretching involved.

And, wow, I shouldn't get on this early, it just makes me babble....

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I'll go with a 9a1/2. That would also be okay, I think.

Mmm cleaning in his underwear. Good times. *g*

[gweneiriol.livejournal.com]

They totally need to give up this hero gig and conquer the freaking universe already. John can bring Rodney pretty planets and ZPMs and lead very large armies while heavily armed. I'm just saying. It does good things for me. and Evil!Mastermind!Rodney using the drug to take control of John for wicked sexual purposes and to conquer the galaxy

are these future plans for the Crimes against Humanityseries? :P

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*smirks* IN that universe, he wouldn't need a drug.

[tenillypo.livejournal.com]

The idea of that kind of betrayal of trust, i.e. drugging a friend against his will, is completely abhorrent and unsexy to me. Unfortunately, I have a feeling the writers intended it to be a "funny" little guys-will-be-guys moment, with a dash of "hey, isn't it hilarious that Rodney such a self-centered ass?" thrown in.

But. I really like your explanation, and since it does make sense that Rodney would most likely have had to have gotten the drug from Sheppard in the first place...I'm going with consensual experimentation. And that? Is super cute.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I just can't see how he'd make it work otherwise. Even Lucius admitted in herb form it just made people hate him a little *less*, not influence them, and if, as Rodney stated, he only tried a little bit, it would have to be the liquid.

[lunarwolfik.livejournal.com]

I am now reminded of having to memorize Shakespeare's Sonnet 18 "Shall I Compare Thee To A Summer's Day" and then having to sing it. It too is still up there in the corners of my brain, just waiting to ambush me with it's utter and complete uselessness.

I now understand the ending a little better (at the time my brain had completely shut down from laughter due to "fly, Lucius, fly") and I'm going with you that it was a little experiment. I mean, last time I checked Rodney can't concoct potions from wacky herbs unless he's been getting lessons from Snape on the down low, which I highly doubt.

So, he had to get the potion/liquid thing from John and John has been pretty unhappy lately, so the euphoric thing was a major plus for him I'm thinking and well, if Rodney agreed not to abuse it, then I think John would be fine with it. Cause otherwise it brings up a whole lot of bad and I would hope Rodney's not capable of something like that.

Number 7 leads my brain to a shiny happy place. And makes me want them to have more geeky random conversations in the future.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*hee* Rodney =/= Snape.

Exactly! John's *cold*. I'm willing to go with even Rodney, after all the teasing, challenging John to see if *he* can resist it and John very "fine, I can totally *resist* this" and boom, not so much.

it's *them*. God they make me happy.

[zoerayne]

3.) How did fandom *not do this first*? How? Did I miss it? *How did we not write this already?*

Um. I kinda wrote the "drink that causes someone to exude pheromones and become irresistible" thing. Twice, technically. *g*

BTW, what John actually says at the end of the ep is: "Anyway, I'd better get back and clean your quarters before the next scout." There's no "we" about it, despite what everyone on LJ seems to think.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

CRAP. I read both of those! Now I remember!

And it's definitely "I" not "we" there. Just rewatched to double check.

[bloodygoodgirl.livejournal.com]

Point 5 is so true. I just wanted to make him soup and have Rodney fuss all over him.

As for 12. I am completely considering leaving school right now and writing this. Cause world domination is totally hot.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Dear God yes.

And griping at him the entire time while making him lie down and checking his temperature and Rodney all "You're going ot make me *sick* you asshole--do you need more soup?"

*pets them* God love them both for the pretty.

[piplover.livejournal.com]

I think the big thing to focus on at the end is that John isn't all star eyed over Rodney, or trying to fondle him, or being out of character. It makes me think that this was totally consensual, and that Rodney did just take a little bit for research purposes. Kind of like, "Hey, John, you want to help me with something?"
Especially if he had the same grin that he had in Hide and Seek.
And Sheppard's, "I better go clean your room," just had me giggling, becuase seriously? They totally had sex, and the little sip was just to add a bit of spice to it.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

See, I can see it as that easily. And it would mostly fit with how they act on teh screen.

[cynonymous.livejournal.com]

"The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones..." Senior year for me.

My interpretation of the scene at the end was non-slashy, so I didn't get a non-con vibe -- I think Rodney is really just getting John to clean his quarters, maybe do some laundry, fetch him something from the cafeteria, etc., as payback for John having left him *alone* and *defenseless* with all the scary crazy people, and Ronon probably *bruised* him when he pinned him to the wall, OMG. Seriously, I imagine going through something like that would be one of Rodney's worst nightmares -- knowing how irrational/dumb he is going to become, and being helpless to stop them from doing it to him.

Catwoman and Batman discussion
I thought this was incredibly slashy -- "To Wong Foo Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar," anyone? Was that code for, "I'll meet you in your quarters later; wear the dress"?

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Well, it doesn't have to be slashy to be creepy--just putting a friend under a mind controlled drug without their consent is very, very, very creepy and kind of painfully not something you *do* to a person. I mean, outside a slash reading where sex is involved--yes. That would bother me a lot.

Dear God yes. Second on the catwoman and batman thing. God.

[sffan.livejournal.com]

You know, I'm going to go with your option a) because there's no way Rodney would be dumb enough to go with option b). John would kill him in slow, painful ways when he came out of it.

I loved this episode entirely too much. (still giggling over the last scene)

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*smirks* There is that, too. Or find really creative ways to screw around with mental commands to the Ancient tech. *G*

[vickita.livejournal.com]

while John was teasing Elizabeth, Carson was *right beside her*. It's framing, but it just--goes those places.

See, and I took that as entirely intentional, that it was a fully conscious (albeit deniable) little throwaway comic bit.

I mean, however (*cough*) straight TPTB may want to play these things in front of The Great Unwashed Masses, I figure these are still people who make their living in Shoooooow Bizniss, and gay humor is pretty common in their world. I don't believe for a minute that they don't know what they're doing in instances like this. *g*

[seperis.livejournal.com]

YES!

It was just--there. And Carson's *crying*! *dies*

[iamtheenemy.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I'm glad someone besides me sees the scarycreepygrossness of 10b. I grimace every time someone mentions slavefic in this context, because horrible and angsty is the only way I could see that playing out. And that, while maybe making a good story? Is not hot to me and definitely not worth squeeing over.

10a, though? That's something I could get behind. Someone also posited the idea that Sheppard was being unbearable in his teasing, so Rodney gave him a little of the potion, makes him clean Rodney's room and then gives him the antidote. That way Sheppard wouldn't get to tease them anymore. That one is still a little iffy to me, but I could get behind it too, in a cinch.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

See, I don't like that either. It's just--*frowns*--that's screwing with someone's *mind*, too close to deliberate slaveryfic, and I don't want to think Rodney would do that just for revenge. That's a place that I don't want the character to go without a lot more backing than 'omg he was mean to me!' defense. That--makes me nervous in a lot of ways about how trustworthy Rodney is if he could do that to a friend just for fun.

I can see other people taking up that refrain. And offiically not reading any more ep reviews or I will freak out at the implied okayness.

YMMV totally on this. I can see how other people would come away with a diffeerent opinion. Just mind control is only okay to me under fairly narrow circumstances.

[lydiabell.livejournal.com]

Not that I think this is what they were actually going for, but how about 9c: Rodney didn't take the herb at all -- they're just screwing with everybody else's heads. :) This way John has an excuse to openly be nice to Rodney in public, go to his quarters, etc.

I can picture them going back to Rodney's quarters and just laughing their asses off: "Did you see the looks on their faces?" And then Rodney gets a little insecure: "Um, you *would* have stopped Ronon if he had tried to shoot me, right?" And John acts casual and says, "Hey, it was only set to stun, you would have been fine," then Rodney gets huffy, and John appeases him by giving him a blowjob.

[eternallycait.livejournal.com]

Sometimes the writers will put something in and I'm just all 'NO NO THIS WILL MAKE FANDOM EXPLODE WITH CUTTING FIC' and it's very sad.
I loved this episode, I think that this one and Duet are my go to episodes for fun and games. Rodney was fantastic! I loved seeing him all smiley and John would totally want to get into that. I completely agree with the first interpretation.

[kernezelda]

I loved this episode and SG1's with hand-clapping, desk-thumping love.

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

I liked the episode, though like everyone I was bothered by the treatment of the OC women, who were--I agree--rape victims and I'm sad that the writers didn't seem to SEE that or take that seriously. Anybody who even begins to think of how Joss Whedon would do this material would just cry.

That being said, I wasn't so bothered by the end, because they were dropping anvilly hints about how Lucius took the drug (at least initially) because he wanted to be liked. And so I think they were going for--not so much, Rodney drugs his friend John, but Rodney HIMSELF takes a drug that will make him more likeable to people in general--and the only person left for it to work on is John. I think that's what they meant, and we were supposed to find it lame rather than creepy.

THAT being said *g*, I prefer to believe that Rodney took the herb knowing that it would work ONLY on John and unable to resist doing anything that might possibly make John want him. Because Rodney's completely gobsmack in love with him, and wants him with a singular and unholy passion. *g*

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I just seriously like the idea of Rodney needled too far and telling John that if *he* hadn't been sick, he'd totally have rolled over too, and John like, no way, and Rodney like, so way! Like teenage girls, where I get a lot of my inspiration. Leading to Rodney taking it, leading to, of course, happy sex. Happy *euphoric* sex at that. And a terribly messy room.

THAT being said *g*, I prefer to believe that Rodney took the herb knowing that it would work ONLY on John and unable to resist doing anything that might possibly make John want him. Because Rodney's completely gobsmack in love with him, and wants him with a singular and unholy passion. *g*

That also would work.