i am glad strangers want to tell me my choices are like, okay

Okay, I had this resolution not to post about things that piss me off--there are so many!--until I had waited twenty-four hours to see if I was still pissed.

But seriously. How the hell did we get to this?

In this post about breastfeeding and VVC and vidshows this thread kinda maybe got to me. Maybe a little.

There is something wrong with any policy that excludes the people who've chosen the healthiest, safest options for their families.

I need to ask; is it really really required that any mention anywhere of breastfeeding has to attach judgment to people who don't breastfeed? The later "clarification" is not really working for me either; I guess I'm glad elf is totally not judging non-breastfeeders? There's a helpful list of reasons it's okay to make that choice. It's here.

I don't think any woman should feel guilty for choosing formula. Not even if, years later, she looks back and says "I should've done it differently." We're all working from limited information and making decisions we may decide later were the wrong ones.

That's very magnanimous of you, thanks.

Comments

[norabombay]

I believe I just had a BITCH, PLEASE moment.

Also, the person insisting, against the actual lawyer, that Illinois law forces them to allow infants?

Really?

I note that she has no children.

[seperis]

How did it even get to "now I will quickly toss in a breastfeeding superiority you lazy non-breastfeeders who will regret it later!" in a post about babies at a vidshow?

I mean, what the hell. Call me crazy, but I'm almost sure that the argument can be made without you know, deciding to have an education special of judgmentness.

[serrico]

Oh sweet Jesus, the policy debate's detoured into *childcare* now???

Judgey McGavelBrain's Thoughts On Childcare, yet!

...I can't even say anything. Because if I start, I most likely will not stop.

[seperis]

*hands* You cannot so much as mention breastfeeding before a timer starts; it's like magic. Countdown until we get non-breastfeeding judgment starts....now.

I mean, there's not even an argument when it starts from teh idea you are deliberately making your kid less healthy.

[brownbetty]

“You shouldn't feel bad, you didn't know better. And you will later repent of your heinous sin.”

[seperis]

I get the feeling--call me crazy--that the possibility I wouldn't is like, impossible. Or something.

[sage]

omg, the trainwreck, it is EPIC. I was laughing in horror, but now I'm just laughing...yay?f

[seperis]

That's how you keep sane. *nods*

[geekturnedvamp]

Amazingly, out of the entire past week of VVC discussions, it took THIS to seriously piss me off.

[seperis]

I'm wondering--completely ridiculously--if this is the equivalent of a breastfeeding Godwin? The speed by which any discussion involving children or breastfeeding reduces to judging those who do not breastfeed?

And what the hell did that bit of wisdom have to do with the entry? Was it really like, that necessary to make sure anyone reading there knew just how less healthy a kid is without breastmilk?

[norah]

Oh, FFS. Really?! Some people, honestly.

[seperis]

I am trying to figure out what other issues I need to worry about being judged on right now. There are so many and I feel now that saying it was my "choice" may not quite cut it?

Granted, right this second? I am feeling cynical.

[amara1783]

Yeah, that comment did make me blink. Apparently breastfeeding is the ONE TRUE PATH. Would be nice if that were actually true, and things were that simple.

Instead, women should have easy access to information and resources on this issuue, and our society should be structured so that there is a choice. Women should not be brainwashed into breastfeeding, however well intentioned the brainwashers.

[rivkat]

Yeah, I decided to stop engaging, because if that's the nonjudgmental version I'd really hate to see the judgmental one. I'd probably be a better woman about it if my mom had breastfed me, though.

[mecurtin]

OT -- I just emailed you. I'll look at it this afternoon (in the AC), I have to spend the relatively cool hours shifting stuff around and unpacking.

[mecurtin]

I saw another reference to this on my list, but they didn't mention VVC so I just assumed it was somewhere else on the wild wild internets. I did NOT suspect.

This is where I go over the line from "calling it an unfunnybusiness row" to "calling it a wank". Which is also the line from "trying to listen thoughtfully to all PsOV" to "making popcorn".

[seperis]

Yeah, when you can work in "JUDGE YOUR BOOBS" into an accessibility discussion, something is going south.

[neotoma]

Wow... that's just ... I don't even *have* children and I'm insulted.

WTF, VividCon? Have people lost their ability to know when to stop *talking* or what?

[seperis]

No, now they want to burn down VVC.

[reginagiraffe]

I... don't even know if I was breast or bottle fed. Shows how much trauma was associated with it. *rolls eyes*

And, any con labeled "All attendees must be 18 or over" is *clearly* a "space for GROWNUPS TO DO GROWNUP THINGS".

[merryish]

If you were breastfed, you would know by the little angelic glow you would see around yourself every time you look in the mirror.

[aurora]

...The wank topics keep melting together into an über-wank. :|

[harpers_child]

you know my mom couldn't breastfeed because she gets large painful cysts in her breasts. also baby sister has an infancy-hood allergy to milk of all stripes and had to eat special soy formula.

breastfeeding isn't a viable option for everyone. period.

[nestra]

...the fuck?

I just. Don't even.

[morgandawn]

or how about the woman who is so furious by VVC 'no one under 18' policy = breastfeeding is being banned that she said she'd like to attend the convention just to burn it down.

Seriously, this is getting weird.

[niqaeli]

What the helllllll.

I mean, not just the judgey mcjudgement breastfeeding stuff, but. But. How the hell did VVC turn into such a hotly fucking contested topic in the space of, like, what. A week?

So my theory is fandom is using VVC to work out its issues and, okay, fine. But meanwhile some of us (me, anyway) who are part of VVC are kind of exhausted being your focus-object for your therapy.

Also, what the helllllll.

[fan_eunice]

I would like to cover this comment with gold stars, frame it, and hang it on my wall forever. <3

[medie]

*headdesk*

seriously?

So glad to know we have Elf to guide us on the path that is right and true! Now I can raise my future offspring right. Assuming, of course, my frail, bottlefed constitution can keep me alive long enough to reproduce.

[seperis]

THIS IS AN ISSUE. IT IS ABOUT HEALTH OKAY. AND A WOMAN'S CHOICE WITH HER BODY IS LESS IMPORTANT.

My capslock is hurting. Ow. Also, you are evil and stuff. And you have no glow.

[fox]

GRAR.

[seperis]

I'm wondering if the word 'choice' is now a dirty word.

[delle.livejournal.com]

ah, jesus h. roosevelt christ.

you know, I breastfed all my kids. I was LUCKY. It worked for me, and I was the only one of my circle of friends (all having kids about the same time) that it worked for. There's a number of reasons why, but none of the reasons were that the other moms didn't love their kids as much as me and/or didnt' want the best for their kids.

(I was also lucky enough to be home for the first 3 months of my daughter's life and home full time when both my boys were born. and that was LUCK as well as a CHOICE. I had options when many, many women didn't)

I totally and completely support breastfeeding. But that support doesn't mean I don't support ALL mothers to do the very best for themselves, their families and their babies. (double negative there - I hope it's clear I mean to say I support ALL moms, irrespective of what feeding method they chose)

/rant

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Both my sisters breastfed; they were glad they did, though my youngest sister had to wean a little earlier than she wanted to.

You know, that just--hit me out of nowhere. I really didn't expect to see that in a fannish post.

Also? *hugs* When I posted, I suddenly had this horrible feeling that the first comment I'd get woudl be like "Well, obviously you regret your 'choice' if you're this oversensitive" and I might have just cried. Thanks so much for commenting.

[chosenfire28.livejournal.com]

My older sister tried breastfeeding with both her kids and it didn't work, neither of them would take to it and her mother in law ragged on her for not trying harder, she made my sister feel like she was hurting her children.

Me and my siblings were never breastfeed, I think we turned out fine. If I ever had kids I would never breastfeed (mostly cause I have an ewww reaction to the whole thing lol). I think its up to the mom to decide what she wants to do and as long as she isn't spun out on drugs and abusing her kids people should respect the fact that its none of their business.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

My older sister tried breastfeeding with both her kids and it didn't work, neither of them would take to it and her mother in law ragged on her for not trying harder, she made my sister feel like she was hurting her children.

Oh my God. *shudders* My family was supportive, for the most part, but--well. Apparently to some people this is like, teh make or break of parenting.

I think its up to the mom to decide what she wants to do and as long as she isn't spun out on drugs and abusing her kids people should respect the fact that its none of their business.

It always shocks me how much peopel who do not actually have any vested interest in my body are amazingly persistent in explaining what I should do with it. Gah.

Thanks for commenting. Reading that in fannish space hit my paranoia button like whoa.

[reddwarfer.livejournal.com]

I breastfed and did it for two years. It wasn't always easy, but that was my choice not some sort of sanctimonious decision I made to be better than anyone else. There are a hundred different reasons to make a hundred different choices. Not better or worse, just different. My friends' children were bottle-fed and I don't even care why that and not the other because it doesn't matter why. It was her choice and what she decided to do.

It's this stupid thing some women put each other through from work vs. stay at home to other decisions. Why can't we support each other instead?

[seperis.livejournal.com]

It's this stupid thing some women put each other through from work vs. stay at home to other decisions. Why can't we support each other instead?

This beyond words this. I kind of want to give stars now.

Thanks very much for commenting.

[emmuzka.livejournal.com]

Seriously. Why breastfeeding is a red flag that comes up every now and then, even in fandom? You breastfeed or you don't. (If you don't have a baby at the moment, you probably don't.) Why everyone has an opinion about it? Why it is an issue people feel that they should have an opinion?

Maybe the general public wants to have an opinion on breastfeeding because it's one way for the society to use power over a woman's body. How much a woman should weight, should she breastfeed and how long, should she be allowed a cecarean section for non-medical reasons, should she use freaking environmentally friendly diapers for her baby... for the society trying to decide what is the best, over women's own will, that's just a scheme for taking power away from women. And this is even mostly done by other women.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Seriously. Why breastfeeding is a red flag that comes up every now and then, even in fandom?

I can't even figure out how a discussion about breastfeeding during vidshows suddenly took a left turn like that. I mean, I didn't even read that thread at first and then skimmed it and stopped short ,thinking I'd misread it or something.

Maybe the general public wants to have an opinion on breastfeeding because it's one way for the society to use power over a woman's body. How much a woman should weight, should she breastfeed and how long, should she be allowed a cecarean section for non-medical reasons, should she use freaking environmentally friendly diapers for her baby... for the society trying to decide what is the best, over women's own will, that's just a scheme for taking power away from women. And this is even mostly done by other women.

In a nutshell.

And it's nice to have that bit of unspoken superiority, too. God knows, no conversation would be complete without it.

[mockingbirdq.livejournal.com]

I'm the first to admit I'm a total boob nazi, so I'll refrain from commenting about anything regarding breastfeeding itself :P

I will say however, that I think she should have simply stated that nursing in public is protected in most states and that legally baby has the right to be anywhere that mom is while being fed. Short, sweet and to the point would be better than trying to defend/explain her own thoughts on breastfeeding and offending others.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I'm the first to admit I'm a total boob nazi, so I'll refrain from commenting about anything regarding breastfeeding itself :P

So is my sister. *grins* She's learned the art of choosing her battles and how she frames it, which helped with my younger sister a lot.

I will say however, that I think she should have simply stated that nursing in public is protected in most states and that legally baby has the right to be anywhere that mom is while being fed. Short, sweet and to the point would be better than trying to defend/explain her own thoughts on breastfeeding and offending others.

I think that's what really makes me angry; the post wasn't even tangentially related to the advisability of breastfeeding or I wouldn't read it; not like I'm going to wander over to read that if I can help it. But just tossed in there unexpectedly, and not directly related to the legal aspects was just--no.

[elucreh.livejournal.com]

Oh, bite me, commenter. As with the overwhelming majority of all child development issues, there are no right answers. What works best for the child and parent(s) is the best thing in that particular circumstance. You can't make wide generalizations and you sure as fuck have no possible reason to commentate on any situation you are not intimately involved in. For some babies, breast is best. For some, breast means half-starving, stomach problems, or emotional difficulties as a parent struggles not to blame the baby for the problems breastfeeding is causing. Shut up.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

But if you don't comment on it, then people might get the idea there was some kind of choice involved with reasons. That you'll regret. Of course.

That sentence has no irony. I want irony back, dammit.

[cathalin.livejournal.com]

Okay, I had to back out of reading that post and comments, but for somewhat different reasons.(edit: no, reading this over I realize they are the same reasons as yours, basically, yes)

I'm basically LOLing at the assertions (some by people who I respect tons) that breastfed babies don't cry. Um. Could we go back in time and tell that to my children? *eyes my children* They seem not to have gotten the Memo.

Which is kind of off point, but kind of not. Basically, there are a million variations to parenting and a million variations to kids. As someone whose kids are older now, I look back on so many things people put so much mental and emotional energy into and think, you know, those are mainly details. The big stuff is the love you put into it, and that you do your best as much as you can. That's the stuff to sweat./gets cane and hobbles off into sunset

I have additional curmudgeonly opinions, but will shut up now. :)

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I'm basically LOLing at the assertions (some by people who I respect tons) that breastfed babies don't cry. Um. Could we go back in time and tell that to my children? *eyes my children* They seem not to have gotten the Memo.

I have a niece and nephew just at two. I vividly remember there was quite a bit of crying and yet, they were breastfed.

The big stuff is the love you put into it, and that you do your best as much as you can. That's the stuff to sweat./gets cane and hobbles off into sunset

*pulls you back desperately* We need more sane opinions. NO SUNSETS ALLOWED OKAY?

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Ugh. Just ugh. Way to be supportive, ladies.

And you know? Not everyone has a choice. One of my BFFs had a baby at 30 weeks who was in the hospital for quite a while afterwards. My BFF was in a different hospital in a different state recovering from the freak high blood pressure that nearly killed them both. She tried to pump, but her body wouldn't produce milk, and even if it had she couldn't have gotten the milk to her daughter while they were apart. Isn't it nice that she shouldn't feel guilty for choosing formula?

In my case, I adopted, and my child was fed formula for the first nine months while in Korea without us. Isn't it nice that I shouldn't feel guilty for choosing formula?

[professorkatze.livejournal.com]

My sister was adopted, too, and fed with ... well, cow's milk, actually, since there wasn't much in the way of formula in Pakistan. While I won't say she turned out ok (because that would break our sibling code of ragging on each other at every possible opportunity) she's not, I dunno, some hollow-eyed, unloved thing that shrinks into the shadows.

Come to think of it, my little brother (also adopted - you'll note it's a reoccurring theme in my life) was probably bottle-fed exclusively, too.