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From: [personal profile] seperis Date: 2022-03-12 01:55 pm (UTC)
The hierarchy of the terra indigene...well, you know I love a good hierarchy. I am going to mull on that one a bit, and think it's a very good point.

In the first book Lake Silence, Grimshaw thought something super interesting to me when he was investigating that death at the Jumble: it wasn't enough that he was a good cop, but that he had to be a good cop in a way that the terra indigene would recognize and also fit their definition of 'good cop' while also not being fake (they'd really notice that). Specifically, they'd respond to his authority as a cop (person who solves crimes so can do x, y, z, ask x, y, z, be in this place, that place, etc) and let him work.

To me, that reads that there's an existing order and specified roles within that order that the terra indigene are actively fitting humans into or creating for them; they are trying to make sense of human structures and are possibly doing a better job of it than humans are fitting terra indigene into their structures.

After thinking about that and everything else, the inbuilt and basically instinctive hierarchy (and there being roles within it) is the one theory that explained why the terra indigene also responded positively to some of the other female characters (Ineke, Monty's mother, the female pack at Lakeside), all of whom had noticeably at some point argued with them. Each respected and responded appropriately to the existing hierarchy, so they could be given appropriate roles or have roles just created for them on the spot. Order is maintained, everyone knows their place, so the terra indigene could relax and hang out

Even more importantly, the terra indigene would be way more comfortable with weird human behavior that they don't understand and unacceptable behavior would get the benefit of the doubt instead of a lethal response. Unpredictability (and humans are that) and inexplicable human behavior would be seen as at worst a curiosity--why on earth do they do that--instead of knee-jerk assumption of a potential threat when it's correctly encapsulated within predictable order. Here would be where the learning about humans and their weird ways would be something terra indigene would want to do because new friends!, and not 'to avoid being killed if we can't eat them first'.

So if the terra indigene instinctively follow a technical dominance hierarchy both within a subspecies and outside it and have a set of roles within (and not a rigid one either; roles can and will be added as needed, they just need to know what they are to add them), it would be a reflexive give-and-take between two beings; show dominance, show appropriate 'yes yes yes, you're dominant', then move on and forget it (outside actual giving orders or discipline situations at least). So yeah, from the terra indigene pov, the human response to something so utterly baseline is ridiculous; they cringe and scream and have breakdowns, run away and hide, sulk for like ever, hold it against them (why????), start wars, wtf is wrong with them? This is all behavior, by the way, of enemies; people who can and will hurt you. Friends or neutrals follow the hierarchy, even if you're mad about something; that's just how it is; enemies pull bullshit like this and are not friends.

This is the cycle of hell that the terra indigene are in with humans now, and it makes perfect sense to the terra indigene, who have no idea humans have no fucking clue what the hell is going on. They really should at this point, but here we are.

Evidence:

When Monty's family came to Lakeside, Simon quickly adapted to them as part of his people (and he does not do new people, as seen many times, any new people, even new people who are allies like Intuits). Monty's family followed (to Simon and the other terra indigene), a strange but recognizable multi-generational hierarchical pack dynamic with Monty's mother at the head, and all the pack (family) deferred to her (and those that didn't were Obvious Evil Or Something): very very familiar and very reassuring. She showed proper recognition and deference to Simon as another pack leader and leader of Lakeside without throwing a weird human fit but also still argued with him if appropriate: very good human! She even formally joined his pack--a human with excellent sense and taste--to bring her pack under his official oversight but again, didn't enact any weird ass creepy inappropriate cringing nonsense then or later; they acted as always.

When Simon started thinking of Meg's female friends as a female pack within his pack (and their SOs as--adjacently pack I guess?) he settled right down with them as part of his responsibilities; even better, he was cranky about it and they didn't faint and scream but reacted correctly. Though yeah, it also helped by that point that her female friends had all--either consciously or subconsciously or both--also adapted their behavior to the expected standard response to a routine show of dominance (yes yes yes you're very dominant, very nice) followed by acting normal again and no weird creepy cringy screamy bullshit

Vicky actually gets an even stronger and faster response--and for the same reason--from the opposite side; long term abuse by her ex-husband means she's always reflexively deferential to those more powerful as a protective mechanism, and also she immediately acts as normal as possible after (abusers do not like their victims being 'sulky', as it were). So the terra indigene both instinctively accept her as a 'good human'--she's giving exactly the correct responses to the dominant, very proper, finally--they also respond very protectively, like they would any smaller, weaker, wounded terra indigene and that includes even the Elders and Elementals.

The Lady of the Lake and Aiden were extremely careful in their initial interactions with her, even moreso than the initial Elemental response to Meg; the Five in the this book were super friendly and even chatty with her (she was deferential from the get go; they didn't even have to bother making a show; this is a fantastic human, where on earth do we get more of these?????. Noticeably, the response to making Vicki actively upset is very fast and very, very lethal, and that includes the Elders around the Jumble; they're all treating her pretty much like a Crow or other smaller and less dominant terra indigene who is badly wounded and needs protection. Even Ilya--who is far more familiar with human behavior and closer to human due to education and preferred hunting ground--has the same instinctive, lethal response to Vicki's distress after very, very little exposure (and he's quite baffled, its hilarious).

Interestingly, Jana basically used the same behavior she'd use in a regular police department hierarchy to establish herself (deferential but not cringing to those above her in the hierarchy but also showing her teeth that she wasn't helpless). Most of the real conflict was caused by the (not necessarily unjustified) fear and dislike of humans by the terra indigene (though mostly Virgil) but when her behavior didn't deviate (therefore not being deceptive), everyone relaxed.
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