The Magicians - so many spoilers (4.1 - 4.6)

What's getting to me now is I wrote up this post about 4.4 and Monster!Eliot's feels about Quentin and I feel 4.5 and 4.6 like it confirmed what I felt, especially in view of Monster!Eliot's discovery of tequila and oh boy.

In comments on my The Magicians; post, dar_vidder made a comment that when I was responding, because this is my life, became somewhat post-sized and also weird, so putting it here.

This is my original draft that I'm rethinking in view of 4.5 and 4.6 because there's one thing those later eps--to me--confirmed.



darth_vidder said here: In the latest ep monster!Eliot totally made me root for him when he and Quentin destroyed the model airplanes with gleeful abandon, but then he had to remind me he was a monster by being all cruel and telling Q at the end Eliot was dead.

I am about to expound at length on this because Monster!Eliot is quite literally everything a good possession storyline should be by design and a lot of things I didn't realize I wanted to see. Like, I like this show enough to roll with whatever they gave me--and also because Eliot is my life--but instead I'm in the really unnerving position of total approval for how it's unfolding.

So, having said that: Monster!Eliot was not being cruel at all. In fact--from his point of view--there's a fair to good chance he was trying to make Quentin happy.

Hold up and don't hit reply yet to say "ARE YOU HIGH": answer's no, so one, now you know, and two, I have multiple reasons and some may actually make sense somewhere other than my head, so lets find out. As a useful exercise, I want to call an image to mind for later illustrative purposes: the last time you saw, spoke to, or dealt with someone ages three to four and if possible, one who does not and has not gone to regular daycare or preschool.

Got it? Okay.

One: Monster!Eliot has yet to demonstrate the complexity of emotional intelligence necessary to get (even in theory) that you can do emotional damage to someone equal to or even greater than physical. In other words, he doesn't (yet) know that's even a thing, much less how to do it. For that matter, his comprehension of 'people' is somewhat higher than 'animate scenery' but not much, and way lower than the pig we see later with the following exceptions: Quentin, later Margo and Josh (almost Quentin-level) and to a lesser extent Penny, Julia, and Kady (I think).

(Having said that, it could be argued that Monster!Eliot doesn't actually realize they're part of the same group as 'guy who got exploded because I didn't know there was another word for sprinkles'. Not like he gets out--uh, ever, really.)

I'm not saying he wouldn't be totes into emotional torture, it's just he just doesn't even have a working framework yet for that, much less a working toolset.

To wit: he's just barely grasping 'like/not like' and 'happy/sad' in the context of people (not him) feeling them, and to even get that much required him to not only mind read but an additional verbal explanation for confirmation. He was hurt and baffled that Margot rejected his (to him) reasonable desire to be friends and does not get the exact nature of the dealbreaker in 'friends with Margo' scenario. Like, yes, he gets Eliot's involved somehow--this is not his first time at the 'Eliot' rodeo, this 'Eliot' has been linked to some very upsetting issues with Quentin that also involved 'liking', such as the baffling 'like him less than Eliot' thing and the inexplicable non-sequitir, 'and when can we have Eliot back?'

Suffice to say, the common factor among 'things that are upsetting me' for Monster!Eliot is 'Eliot'. Like, it's not out of the realm of possibility that 'possessing Eliot's body' may occur to him, but as now it's his (and therefore not Eliot's), I'm not sure that possible reason for all this 'not like/not friends' will actually stick.

Which leads us (finally) to the scene in question.

At this very pivotal moment, Monster!Eliot's entire emotional education is about to both double and also go very logically deeply sideways.

When Monster!Eliot arrives in Quentin's dad's den/study/plane room (if it were mine, I"d call it the Aircraft Reservoir but in French or Greek because why not, but we'll go with Plane Room now), there is no attempt to even pretend the reason isn't "because Quentin". At which time, Monster!Eliot notes Quentin doing something that looks breathtakingly boring while also being sad and does some mind-reading because 'sad' is familiar but now Quentin's combining it with something even more inexplicable and horrible, doing boring things, wtf?

Thus he is introduced to a new variation of concept known as 'sad': aka 'sad because father/loved one is dead'. Which again, requires verbal explanation and confirmation from Quentin as to the very complicated details of this 'sad' combined with 'dead'and 'loved one' which Monster!Eliot seems to grasp as 'vague theory regarding new sad' at best and interprets 'packing boxes sadly' as some kind of sad-related game, which is super interesting for roughly five, maybe ten seconds and then we're back to bored, so very tragically bored watching boring boxes being boringly packed while Quentin feels boring feelings about boring loved ones which by expereince he already knows Quentin will inexplicably continue to feel despite the fact Monster!Eliot wants that shit to stop and tells him so. As that has always worked before to get rid of things he doesn't like, he's pretty much out of ideas on solving the "Quentin feeling things I don't like' issue.


Then comes that inexplicable combination of events that can change history.

In his desperate attempt to escape tragic boredom (leaving to do something interesting doesn't seem to occur to him), Monster!Eliot discovers Quentin at some point broke an ashtray, which forever labeled him as Person Who Breaks Things (and Definitely Will Break All Your Father's Precious Airplanes). Unlike literally anyone else who ever existed, Monster!Eliot is completely oblivious to Quentin's painfully transparent issues being expressed not at all subtly via 'apocryphal ashtray story to represent how I break everything and everyone I touch always which most recently includes but is not limited to a.) magic being taken away, b.) magic being brought back, and c.) my dad's death, which I am totally responsible for' and so proceeds to ask a startlingly logical question: so why not just go ahead and break everything? Which also works as metaphor, because sometimes luck is with you.

At which time, three unprecedented and amazing things happen:
1.) Quentin takes his suggestion, which is great for elimination of the 'boring box packing game' in favor of 'the wholesale destruction game', which even without the 'murder' component is always fun and also deeply satisfying since Quentin often won't do what he wants (see the persistent 'sad' issue)
2.) Quentin plays "Destroy Everything" with him. Which is like his favorite game ever and even better with Quentin involved.
3.) Quentin's inexplicable persistence in feeling 'sad' is finally over. Quentin's enjoying "Destroy Everything Game" With Monster!Eliot instead of that annoying 'sad' shit, which is like it should have been all along. Related, Quentin's super enjoying it a lot, which bodes well for their future in "Destroying Everything" with 'Everything' unspecified but definitely not metaphorical in any sense and definitely not limited to inanimate objects, with 'slaughter' being a key feature and probably in one of the higher plurals.

Here's where I think it's possible Monster!Eliot decided to deploy logic, and in a sense, you can't say he was entirely wrong considering the evidence presented and remembering this: Monster!Eliot is a god who was effectively lobotomized/memory wiped into something not unlike a three year old child who was then isolated from contact with anyone or anything but one (1) caretaker/playmate/only source of entertainment.

One (1) person who most likely lived in some level of low-grade unhappiness and fear at the best of times (best times; probably pretty rare) who he could mindread (and come to think, that may not be something he can't/doesn't know how to control) and while context and specifics (and empathy) escape Monster!Eliot, we know he does indeed recognize 'sad' quite well and hey, I think I know why.

So, a three year old who cannot grow up/mature/change (lobotomy, memory wipe) and also cannot be effectively taught anything, as a.) he inexplicably still has access to a (relatively) great deal of reality bending, murder-doing power chained to no impulse control whatsoever plus b.) a mortal human caretaker/entertainer, which is like only one step above a mop attached to an Echo Dot in the 'list of beings/people/things qualified for or at minimum not a disasterously bad choice for god-sitting in order of best to worst'. And no lie, I'm kind of leaning toward 'mop' being a marginal improvement overall.

Up to now, Monster!Eliot's experience with 'sad about....' (boring, annoying, doesn't go away despite him wanting it to) has generally been combined with two other seemingly unrelated but equally inexplicable and really annoying/upsetting things: 'not like [Monster!Eliot] because of....' or 'like '[Monster!Eliot] less than....'. The only thing they seem to have in common is 'Eliot in each and every "...." and specifically his absence. As Monster!Eliot's only working way to deal with things not doing what he wants is 'murder', there is obviously no solution to the 'sad about Eliot's absence' issue when for reasons, murder isn't on the table.

Now, however, he's been introduced to a different kind of sad that involves 'dead'. In that case, there's a solution that he's actually tested (and maybe even is the first to discover): sad for dead loved one can be dealt with using 'destroy game' and they feel better.

So says Eliot's dead, which as he sees it solves all the problems; 'sad for missing Eliot' won't go away but 'sad for dead Eliot'--like dead loved one--most definitely will; apply destruction.

Monster!Eliot learns feelings: kind of makes you wonder how humans generally manage to turn out so well now that I read that.

Adding Now

All of Monster!Eliot's behavior confirms pretty much that a.) he's jealous as fuck of Eliot but isn't sure how to conceptualize this and b.) this is due to the fact a lot of Eliot is filtering into him and he isn't actually aware that is happening. But how he's relating to Quentin kind of confirms Monster!Eliot's channeling way more Original!Eliot than he knows, and the way he backed the fuck down in 4.6 confirms that. Monster!Eliot has no personal reason to have feels for Quentin, but if he's getting Eliot's feels (and they're now effectively his feels as well), then yeah, his behavior is consistent and makes perfect sense.

Which if true, would make some very interesting thoughts on how they get rid of the monster, up to and including Eliot just kind of--absorbing Monster!Eliot into himself when he takes back over. Which wouldn't be the weirdest resolution on this show. In which case the Happy Place may be Monster!Eliot breaking planes with Quentin forever, which honestly is kind of adorable and I'm pretty sure with Monster!Eliot's attention span he literally could do forever.

Comments

[kore]

Which if true, would make some very interesting thoughts on how they get rid of the monster, up to and including Eliot just kind of--absorbing Monster!Eliot into himself when he takes back over. Which wouldn't be the weirdest resolution on this show. In which case the Happy Place may be Monster!Eliot breaking planes with Quentin forever, which honestly is kind of adorable and I'm pretty sure with Monster!Eliot's attention span he literally could do forever.

Hunh, I hadn't thought that maybe they might flip the Monster into the Happy Place, but that sounds like a solution that might totally work. I don't think they're going to do the 'collect all the /plot coupons/ Monster body parts' because that's not how the show's worked before, but it does sound like the 'gods' took apart the monster and drew power from his parts, and that's maybe even how they became deities. I don't know if the show's going to bring restoring Eliot, stopping the Monster and returning magic all together in one finale, but it would be kind of neat if they did. (They're making such a big deal out of Julia being powerless but invulnerable I have to think something will happen with that too.)

I think there have been more than a few clues that Eliot is bleeding through the Monster -- two big ones for me was when he said "Julia" as a nickname (which subtitles amusingly made "Hoolia") and "But you don't have to be such a baby about it" when Quentin made him back down from killing Eliot's body. So maybe there'll be a "But she could love Charles Wallace" type finale with Eliot and Quentin, which I would love, really.

[greywash]

Hunh, I hadn't thought that maybe they might flip the Monster into the Happy Place, but that sounds like a solution that might totally work.

Man, this is totally a Modern Jackass Magazine hot take, because I actually try to avoid pre-season content really really hard, but I kind of think back in the autumn there was actually a S4 clip that came out (possibly as part of one of the trailers?) that strongly suggested that this was what they were going to do, at least in part—I sort of scrollscrollscrolled past it, but IIRC, the GIFs I saw of it involved Margo in her welters uniform, and a bunch of other people who—now, here, six eps into S4—make a ton of sense as like—Eliot's guardians of the Happy Place, and... I think there was snow? I don't really remember, man, like I said: hot take, Modern Jackass Magazine, etc.

But as a solution, this approach also really consistent with kind of—uh, what my partner calls my Unified Theory of Eliot Waugh, which is not super subtle or anything but basically boils down to "Eliot wants to be loved and thinks he's fundamentally unlovable." Monstrousness is obviously a huge part of this show for many, many characters, but I think Eliot in particular feels like a monster all the time, and always has, all the way back to beating the shit out of Taylor, age 12, or whatever: he's both the person who's the best equipped to have to carry the Monster around inside of him long-term and the person for whom that's going to be the most painful, and I think the showrunners have their finger on that particular pulse and overwhelmingly like to push characters into situations tailor-made to hurt them in that way, where it's painful for a long time and holds them right up against something that they profoundly hate and fear.

(Uh—I feel like this comment needs a disclaimer, in the interests of full disclosure: I also would be deeply satisfied on the "YAAAS CALLED IT" front if they did this since that's reeeaaaaaaaally close to the solution I used in "Firebird", though that story is way more interested in, like—how that bleedthrough from Eliot affects the Monster, because by gum, if there's one thing Eliot does understand, it's how to a) love people and b) beat himself up. So maybe you shouldn't take any meta-argument that ultimately ends with me shouting "I WAS RIGHT!" at my TV anything like seriously [but also, ahahahah, I would love this soooo muuuuuuuuuuuch])

consent issues cw

[greywash]

This is super helpful, thank you, because I could tell that Monster!Eliot was emotionally/developmentally kind of stuck, but I don't have kids of my own and the kids I teach range in age from like.... 8 to 22. And I was sort of like—well, he's definitely not believable as emotionally eight, but I couldn't tell if he was being written as emotionally/developmentally stuck younger than that, but in a space that made sense; or if it was just bad writing; or if we were supposed to think that his cruelty to Quentin over Eliot was, like, a plan? Active intentional torture?? Like—neither of those things seemed consistent with the Monster's sort of... I don't want to say sweetness, exactly, but—he does have a kind of... murdery warmth, I guess? And I was just having a super hard time wrapping my head around why on earth the Monster would tell Quentin Eliot was dead if his goal was, like, let's play not-boring games and be friends forever, especially from the perspective of his attachment to Quentin. But your explanation makes a ton of sense.

I definitely agree that the Monster is channeling more Eliot than he's aware of or in conscious control of, but—what about Ora? I think the Monster is also sort of—for some reason, which they haven't really gone into canonically, the Monster wants to bond with his keeper, and after Ora's death, his logical keeper is Quentin. Quentin came to play with him!! All the way to Blackspire! Quentin is his friend now. So I actually do think the Monster does have a reason to back down in 4x6, like—a reason of his own, and that reason is just that Quentin is the person who came to Blackspire to be buddies with him, and I do think—however unsophisticated he is about feelings—that "this is the person who plays with me" is a—connective role that the Monster both wants and understands.

The place where I am both delighted and apprehensive about where this is going is the really complicated sexual undercurrents that they've been slowly layering into the interactions between Quentin and the Monster (and the Monster and other people—Margo, a bit; and then that boy in the Brakebills library—I mean, I've watched that clip like 5 times and I can't explain what the Monster's doing there any way other than "mind-control getting this boy to turn slowly in a circle for him so he can check him out"). Like—I know I already said this somewhere but I forget where, so I apologize if the answer is "another comment somewhere on your blog," but Quentin reacts to the Monster as though he's somewhere between his ex-boyfriend with whom he had a bad breakup that he's not totally over, and a kid he's unwillingly babysitting, and I sort of feel like—the only thing that's prevented this, so far, from going in a deeply rapey direction is that I don't think the Monster knows anything about sex. But Eliot does, and Eliot's body does, and more than that they know about sex with Quentin, and now the Monster's discovering—to some extent at least—the joys of a little light semi-erotic strangulation, and like—hot, but also yikes. Soooo much yikes. Like—on top of the kind of intrinsic gross of a character who's emotionally/developmentally basically operating at preschool-age levels, they've sort of missed the narrow window (in 4x4, pretty much) in which sexual anything between the Monster and Quentin could be anything like consensual, and that makes me. Really nervous.

I really need to make some Monster icons. I've been tagging him as "my favorite evil boy" on my blog (since my Eliot tag from Tumblr was already "my favorite boy")—not wholly accurate, I think, though "my favorite traumatized and abused but also murdery supernatural being living inside my favorite boy" doesn't fit in a DW tag—and it hurts my heart that I can't icon-tag this comment with either "my favorite evil boy" or "frozen peas?"

Re: consent issues cw

[dar_vidder]

I think the Monster is also sort of—for some reason, which they haven't really gone into canonically, the Monster wants to bond with his keeper, and after Ora's death, his logical keeper is Quentin. Quentin came to play with him!! All the way to Blackspire! Quentin is his friend now. So I actually do think the Monster does have a reason to back down in 4x6, like—a reason of his own, and that reason is just that Quentin is the person who came to Blackspire to be buddies with him, and I do think—however unsophisticated he is about feelings—that "this is the person who plays with me" is a—connective role that the Monster both wants and understands.

I agree. At the end of last season I think the monster sought out Quentin simply because he'd been presented as his next designated playmate. This season though it seems like there's started to be some incidental bleed-through happening with Eliot that only amplifies his obsession with Q.

I really, really hope we don't head for serious rapey territory with this storyline. I'd just assumed we wouldn't since the monster comes across as childlike in so many ways, but with this show, you never know.

Re: consent issues cw

[greywash]

Ugh, I know. Huuuuuuge yikes, on that one. I sort of felt like I was going as gross as it could reasonably get in my pre-emptive hiatus fix-it fic [under the assumption that they weren't going to write off either of these characters forever, which—I was/am actually worried that they were/are], and now I'm like, "Nope, yeah, that would be. So much grosser!!!"

[ravurian]

Yes, to all of this. I have nothing really to add except to go nodnodnod a lot, because, you know, headcanon accepted. And even if this turns out not to be true, it is going to be my fanon regardless, so there.

ALSO, Monster!Eliot as the 'dead' god of magic Y/Y? 'Fixing' him as the resolution to the librarians' stranglehold on magic Y/Y? Potentially murkier, but: Julia as his successor or inheritor or some sort of midwife to his rebirth?

[dar_vidder]

Now, however, he's been introduced to a different kind of sad that involves 'dead'. In that case, there's a solution that he's actually tested (and maybe even is the first to discover): sad for dead loved one can be dealt with using 'destroy game' and they feel better.

So says Eliot's dead, which as he sees it solves all the problems; 'sad for missing Eliot' won't go away but 'sad for dead Eliot'--like dead loved one--most definitely will; apply destruction.

That makes so much sense.

Which if true, would make some very interesting thoughts on how they get rid of the monster, up to and including Eliot just kind of--absorbing Monster!Eliot into himself when he takes back over. Which wouldn't be the weirdest resolution on this show. In which case the Happy Place may be Monster!Eliot breaking planes with Quentin forever, which honestly is kind of adorable and I'm pretty sure with Monster!Eliot's attention span he literally could do forever.

I want that to happen SO BAD now.

[adspexi]

This ties in really well with how I read the Monster, especially his unbalanced state in 4.6. I'm on the autism spectrum, and although I'm okay at reading people now, growing up was rough. The Monster reminds me so much of where I was at 10-14: learning that not only do other people have these emotion things, but if you say what they want to hear they'll do what you want! and they'll stop being weird! they can't even tell if you're lying, it's so cool, you can say anything. Which was chill for a while, but stopped being fun the second I realized I had emotions too.

At the start of the season, the Monster knows that people do things for their friends, but he doesn't seem to have a personal stake in any relationships. Trying to get Q and Margo to be friends with him is about getting them to help him make his body, not because he (consciously, at least) wants to be around them or be liked. He doesn't blow up when Q asks for Eliot back because it's not a problem to him: Quentin likes this body, I'm in this body, he'll learn to like me.

But as of 4.6, the Monster's starting to figure emotions out. Friendship isn't transitive, and the guy he wants to be around and do things with doesn't like him, so why take care of this body when it just makes people think of this asshole that Quentin wants instead of me? It makes me wonder if/where the Monster is going to develop from here, and how long Q and Julia's game schtick is going to work. And it makes me worry that the Monster's going to force the Eliot issue, because aggrieved kids who want you to hurt like they hurt aren't the best at impulse control.

[seperis]

This ties in really well with how I read the Monster, especially his unbalanced state in 4.6. I'm on the autism spectrum, and although I'm okay at reading people now, growing up was rough. The Monster reminds me so much of where I was at 10-14: learning that not only do other people have these emotion things, but if you say what they want to hear they'll do what you want! and they'll stop being weird! they can't even tell if you're lying, it's so cool, you can say anything. Which was chill for a while, but stopped being fun the second I realized I had emotions too.

You know, I hadn't thought in those terms, but that's a really accurate take on the Monster (especially with the context we have now as of ep 11).