it's nothing like a question that can be answered in one word

Environments are in read-only for mass updates. I wish I could explain what that actually is, because it's deceivingly nothing like what those words mean according to the dictionary, but I really can't. I know it's a mass, and it's an update, and while yes, it is, no, it's really not. And it sucks.

However, this rare morning, it gives me a short, brilliant moment to surf friendsfriends.

Sarah T on the lower numbers of John/Ronon in SGA.

Actually, I've kind of vaguely wondered about that, but--the thing is, my first fandom was Star Trek and I came out of that physically incapable of not having a header (though sometimes I break conditioning and remove it) and a taste for random internet drama. I also came out of it unable to believe Kirk was heterosexual and it would still be a year before I stared blankly at my first slash OTP (Pyro/Iceman, in case you were curious).

(Sidenote: I was on there watching or posting actively 1999 -2001--wow. Just. Yeah. This is why flamewars rarely scare me and why I don't often participate; I know some fandoms have been far wankier for far longer and with greater populations and drama, but I'm not sure any fandom post-usenet can hit that same deeply terrifying intensity where there were no prisoners taken and occasionally you realized the ground was being sown with salt. Deeply awesome. Even when you had no idea what Treksmut university was and kept freaking out every time your inbox pinged.)

Right. Moving on. The OTP even in Voyager was Kirk/Spock. I mean, that's an exaggeration, but not much of one. ASCEM(L) was like, KS Central. And I know this because I didnt' read slash and contextually knew at the time the plotlines to three of the winning GO stories.

Now, my question--are there any fandoms who have had more than one major pairing of the same type at the same time? As in, more than one major slash and more than one major het?

Since Trek, I've never been involved in a fandom that did, so I'm curious. And I'm not sure my memories of Trek are accurate, as this was 1999/2000 and I spent about half that time going, oh my God this is the best thing in the world! And um, writing Paris/Seven post-Paris/Torres breakup porn. Because I didn't like Seven and that's how I deal with dislike. It felt like Janeway/Chakotay and Paris/Torres had similiarly strong followings, though J/C was a bit older and larger, and Chakotay/Paris and Paris/Kim seemed relatively even (in retrospect, the locked archives actually skew it even more; I never even *knew* about some of them before Smallville).

I'd ask what everyone thinks influences a pairing to be written, but the answers will be, invariably:
a.) Lots of feedback! OR Feedback doesn't matter! Etc. Etc. Etc.
b.) BNFs! OR BNFs turn me off pairings! Etc. Etc. Etc.
c.) Big Pairings are sheep! OR Rare pairing are boring! Etc. Etc. Wait, didn't we do this recently?
d.) Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. (insert here)

I always wondered if it was just a moment of fannish--unity, if you will, like when a mob forms. Like, remember when you went to cheer at a football game and suddenly in the third quarter and while you've never been the perkiest cheerleader and kinda quiet, you're suddenly filled with bloodlust and helping to lead the crowd in screaming BEAT THE WATERPIGS and lost your voice for a day? (They were hippos. Yes, we got in some much trouble for that one. So very much worth it.) (My algebra teacher was louder than all of us together, though.)(I don't miss being a cheerleader. I do, however, miss controlling crowds with five inches of thigh and some belled shoes. Seriously. I still marvel at that.)

Yes, I'm going to be this incoherent all day; I had no sleep. Also trying to get my John/Ronon recs together, since I kind of think I should feedback the authors and then give the fic their own page.

Comments

[eleveninches.livejournal.com]

I agree with what wickedwords said in a comment earlier about not needing to read John/Ronon because their canon dynamic is really great. I like how their relationship is onscreen so much that I don't really feel the urge to read/write it. (Although if there was a really excellent novel-length fic about John and Ronon being awesome together and saving the galaxy, I'd totally read it.) Like, I've watched the end of 4x17 Midway a billion times and squeed like a typical fangirl.

On top of that, I'm an OTPer all the way, in any fandom. I would like John/Rodney even if no one else did; when I started watching SGA, I thought I'd hate it, because I don't like Jack/Daniel, but the show surprised me. So even though I like John/Ronon and a ton of other pairings (there are really only two pairings I dislike in all of SGA fandom), I find it hard to drag my fannish attention away from my OTP. It has nothing to do with other pairings and everything to do with my attention span (or lack thereof) and my OTP allegiance.

Er, that probably didn't help you at all.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Well, and the sheer number of John/Rodney fic. It is not like it's a scarce quantity.

[aurora]

On top of that, I'm an OTPer all the way, in any fandom. I would like John/Rodney even if no one else did; when I started watching SGA, I thought I'd hate it, because I don't like Jack/Daniel, but the show surprised me. So even though I like John/Ronon and a ton of other pairings (there are really only two pairings I dislike in all of SGA fandom), I find it hard to drag my fannish attention away from my OTP. It has nothing to do with other pairings and everything to do with my attention span (or lack thereof) and my OTP allegiance.
Word, word, word! (Even though both John and Ronon are so v. v. pretty.)

Same goes for the John/Rodney badfic. (We loves the trainwrecks like whoa. \o/)

[winter-elf.livejournal.com]

and I keep thinking of more slash pairs I read *head/desk* In DS9 my OTP was Garak/Bashir. And as I was getting my fix mainly via zines, I have NO idea what the internet had on that time for DS9, or even who was the most popular.... So, I wasn't influenced by anyone, it's just the pairing that sparked my interest.

[maxinemayer.livejournal.com]

Yeah, me, too! I have and had no interest in any of the other characters from reading-the-fic perspective; only Garak/Bashir pings my interest!
Love, max

[thatratorpheus.livejournal.com]

I've still got my hip waders from those wars. It was *not* ok to like more than one character - you had to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE only one and HATE, HATE, HATE all the others. It was practically red state/blue state - like you had to join the Republican party to be a Xander fan, or something. And if you dared to be a non-shipping Spike fan, there was no home for you.

I remember your fic - Giles/Ethan...yum.

[(Anonymous)]

I seem to remember Babylon 5 having a fair few pairings that had a solid fandom niche. Marcus Cole seemed to get paired off with anyone and everyone.

Going back *years* to Space Above and Beyond, didn't that have a few prominent pairing sets too?

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Dr Who. With the resurgence in its popularity with the 9th & 10th Doctors, not to mention Captain Jack and the Torchwood series, that is a universe that has *a lot* of prominent pairings too.

[out-there.livejournal.com]

Now, my question--are there any fandoms who have had more than one major pairing of the same type at the same time? As in, more than one major slash and more than one major het?

Hmmm. Here, I think Buffy the Vampire Slayer might fit, because there was a heck of a lot of different pairings in the day (I mean, jsut for slash, Spike/Xander, Spike/Angel, and Xander/Giles were all pretty big followings and I don't think one ever dominated the fandom completely).

And popslash. I think there were at least two ro three major slash pairings to each boy band, which vaguely interests me -- for no particular reason.

ETA: These are vague impressions of fandoms that I read (a little) but was never part of a huge mailing list or community. So... hmmm. Possibly they're not "true" of the fandom once you got well and truly mired in the fannish politics and pressure. *shrugs*

[bluevsgrey.livejournal.com]

The fandom that first came to mind was HP. It's kinda a clusterfuck of overlapping pairings.

Of course I would have to say bandom. I mean I keep trying to figure out the main pairing for panic at the disco, and I keep coming up short. That doesn't even consider the interband pairings, so.

Also, I wonder if SPN is a true one-pairing fandom, because their was always jared/jensen and sam/dean. Was one really bigger? I mean the are sort of the same and in a way they are completely different.

Also, I happen to think some fandoms have one character who is a Little Black Dress. (Jack of torchwood? Idk, I am not really in that fandom.)

[sholio]

I might be entirely the wrong person to chime in on this, because I don't generally think in terms of romantic pairings, per se. I think in terms of friendship pairs. But I think a lot of the dynamics and the basic principles are similar.

I *wish* I knew what makes some couples ping wildly with fannish radar while others slip clean off. I find it interesting skimming down the replies here that some people don't ship John/Ronon for the exact same reasons that others ship John/Rodney, and vice versa. In other words, for some people, the big draw of John/Rodney is the friction between them, while for others it's the closeness that's already there, while some people find John/Ronon too similar to make good sparks, and others, too different to make a viable relationship. So obviously it's not that there's some kind of magic formula that makes a fan-popular couple -- or at least, it's not the same for everybody. And yet, most of the fandoms I've been involved with, deeply or peripherally, have had some kind of similar OTP that's simply off the charts compared to any other pairing on the show -- e.g. Jack/Daniel, Clark/Lex, Kirk/Spock, Bobby/Darien. So it's not something that struck me as odd in SGA; it's actually interesting to look through the responses and see a sampling of fandoms that aren't like that.

I think you're right on target with the mob mentality. And I really don't mean that in a bad way -- it's just that people tend to gravitate towards groups (and fandoms) that suit their needs, and what you read a lot of, is inevitably going to influence what you write. I went through a lot of anime fandoms with a friend who was also into gen, as I was, and we had a lot of discussions about the utter dearth of gen in many anime fandoms; our conclusion was that, basically, the overwhelming presence of slash and het meant that new writers to the fandom just never thought of writing anything else. It wasn't a conscious decision not to write gen, so much as just that they never read it, they never thought about it, they didn't discuss it -- all the fic and meta revolved around couples. There wasn't really a place for gen to get a toe-hold. And people who were into gen to the exclusion of all else didn't really stick around -- they migrated in search of a fandom that was better suited to their needs.

I've noticed that individual fandoms tend to lean in certain directions with regards to what *kind* of pairings are popular -- for example, SGA does not go for the enemyslash. At all. There's a little of it out there (Kolya/anybody, Michael/anybody) but there are some fandoms where enemyslash is huge and friendslash is barely on the radar -- most of the examples I can think of are anime fandoms that you probably wouldn't be familiar with, but, well, I guess Harry Potter is another one, where nearly all the big slash pairings are between rivals or enemies (Harry/Draco, Harry/Snape, Snape/Lupin); if it followed SGA "rules", the big pairing would be Harry/Ron, but that's just not how that fandom operates. And I wonder if there isn't a snowball effect, where people who are into enemyslash gravitate into fandoms with a lot of it, while those who prefer watching friends fall in love go for fandoms where that's the default.

And one of the overwhelming things in SGA fandom is a love of banter and funny one-liners. Tough to say if it's cause or effect -- if the fandom is that way because the show is that way, so it draws fans who like funny SF, or if the fandom was dominated in the beginning by fic that played up that relationship between John and Rodney, so it's developed its own subculture since. In any case, pairings where the banter's more difficult to supply seem to have a little trouble getting a toehold in a fandom that likes bicker-banter pairings (I think it's telling that the big het pairing is John/Elizabeth, which has a similar dynamic). I think you'd have the same problem with a pairing between canonical friends or lovers in a fandom that prefers to ship people with an enemy/rival dynamic -- not that it couldn't exist as a rare pair, but it's out of step with the tone of that fandom's mainstream crowd.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Actually, no, this is exactly what I was looking for in the question. Intersting.

And I wonder if there isn't a snowball effect, where people who are into enemyslash gravitate into fandoms with a lot of it, while those who prefer watching friends fall in love go for fandoms where that's the default.

Good question. Hmm. Seriously hmm. I'd kill for a survey of fannish migration patterns, actually. Just to see.

[lydiabell.livejournal.com]

Why do I read stuff where people bash characters and pairings I like? ::sigh::

(Not harriet_spy; she was very classy about it.)

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Was I bashing? *goes to check* I'm not a huge fan of bashing any pairing, even those I really dislike.

[apple-pi.livejournal.com]

I think LOTRPS there were (are) several very popular pairings all going on at the same time. That said, there have definitely been fads; I came into the fandom when Billy/Dom was really rolling strong, having succeeded Dom/Elijah as the primary hobbit pairing. That said, there was still plenty of Dom/Elijah being written.

*looks thoughtfully at above sentences*

That whole paragraph is just weird. The phrase "primary hobbit pairing" is really weird. And yet, I love it.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

overheardfandom for the hobbit pairing.

I totally lost it when I read that the first time. And yet, I love it too!

[mmmchelle.livejournal.com]

I can only speak for me, but I don't find Ronon hot. I recognize his attractiveness in an abstract way, and I can understand why others find him attractive. He's beautiful, but he doesn't do anything for me.

Although I liked him and Keller.

To write a pairing I have to love them both, and I'm more than a little in love with both John and Rodney. It's a love that's mellowing with age, but it's still there.

I never believe the feedback argument for why people write certain pairings. I write weird pairings in other fandoms, like Hiro/Peter or odd femslash pairings, even het on occasion, even though I know those stories won't get the same level of feedback as John/Rodney. So what? Something about those characters and that story speak to me and that's all that matters.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*nods* I agree. While I think feedback could be influential in amount of fic and enthusiasm (I mean, seriously, getting the thrill of a full inbox is inspiring), I can't think it actually measures what people choose to write.

[paraka]

Hmm, at first I was going to mention QaF and the Brian/Justin, Brian/Michael shippers, but no, I'm pretty sure the Brian/Justin shippers out numbered the Brian/Michael shippers by a lot, we just tended to hear the Brian/Michael shippers complain louder.

The one fandom that I have noticed a lot of pairings is in the Numb3rs fandom though. The big slash pairings in the beginning were Don/Charlie (which seems to have died down lately) Don/Coop, Don/Edgerton, Charlie/Edgerton, Charlie/Larry, Charlie/Colby, Colby/David.

There are, of course, some that are more popular, Don/Charlie was super popular in the beginning with Don/Coop, Charlie/Larry and the boys with Edgeton making a go for notice, but then the show started focusing more on the team and things split up more. Colby has been a lot more prominent since the spy story line was introduced. I'm constantly surprised at the wide variety of fic that appears on my flist for the Numb3rs fandom. And really, the only fighting/disgust I've seen aimed at any pairings have mostly been aimed at the incest aspect rather than the "No! Character X *obviously* belongs with Character Y and would *never* be with Character Z!"
But then again, Numb3rs is still a relatively small fandom, so there's less people to butt heads.

[maxinemayer.livejournal.com]

I have a little theory as to why John/Ronon never took off as a favorite pairing for fanfic the way John/Rodney did. It's because of Ford! Ford, as the 4th in the OT4 of Team was written very poorly, in my opinion. The character wasn't made interesting until he was written out of the series! So the major slash pairing of John/Rodney had a chance to establish itself as the clear frontrunner long before Ronon came on the scene. By that time, only someone who really fell in love with Ronon would pair him with the major favorite, John Sheppard.

As far as what makes one sit down and start to write stories about a pairing, for me it's simply falling in love with a character in the series. I was going along fine, watching Highlander and enjoying it, liking Duncan but not crazy about him, enjoying his relationship with Tessa, etc., when out of the blue, Methos hit the stage and I was lost! I fell in love with Methos and - because I believed Methos was in love with Duncan - I needed to love Duncan, too! And I needed to write about them like - whoa - every day in every way for months and months and months!

I can see from the way in which many fanfic writers seem to write various pairings, and move from one fandom to another with ease and frequency, that my experience probably only reflects the "inspiration" type of fanfic writer. The other type - the craftsman - appears to be less bound by pairing and more interested in world-building, intricacies of relationships, etc., than I. As they say, your mileage may (and probably *does*) differ.

A similar experience for me was dueSouth. I loved Fraser with the original Ray Vecchio, as friends, comrades, as an extremely enjoyable pair to watch as they interacted during the episodes. But only the relationship between Fraser and Ray Kowalski pinged my writerly "muse" (for lack of a better word). Then, too, I was driven to write about them, I couldn't stop writing about them, I was so in love with their love affair (subtextual though it was). Whereas, it would never occur to me to write Fraser/RayVecchio fic!

Just wanted to speak on this subject a little less objectively, less theoretically, more personally, because I'm really more interested in love than in ... numbers.

Hope what I've said doesn't offend anybody's OTP in any way, because I would never want to harsh anyone's squee! And the fact is, I actually like John/Ronon, if written by a craftsmanlike writer, with some layers to her name. But the fact is, I'll even read badfic about John/Rodney, so ... there it is!
Love, max

Part 1: omg i talk SO MUCH.

[silviakundera.livejournal.com]

--are there any fandoms who have had more than one major pairing of the same type at the same time?

I've been involved in fandom for less time than some (10 yrs), and I'm definitely no fandom expert. But I've come to believe is that there are some basic fandom types. As long as you don't join in the first few episodes (oops!), you know what you're gonna get coming in. You get what you pay for. I'm not saying that people who hate OTP fandoms, or hate wacko fuck-anything fandoms have to leave. Of course not! Just, you know, he's never gonna change. He's going to continue sleeping on your couch and eating your food and you knew that when you started dating him. You knew he had a shit job and never calls when he says he will. If that fandom has churned out a million WIPs based on two people who never met in canon... well... then next week your flist will spit out 3 more. Sometimes he's just not that into you.

I know I'm missing some categories, but this is what I've come up with off the top of my head--

Last Man On Earth: These are those fandoms that are OTP basically by necessity. There really aren't any other serious pairing choices - people got into the fandom because they like the two main characters who get the majority of screen time. [this basically happened twice for Due South.. and.. they're both the same person, except not. it's just complicated]
The Sentinel: There can be only one. Blair/Jim IS the fandom. There were other characters on the show, technically, but there was no other pairing in fandom's or canon's heart. No serious het pairings to rival the massive volume of B/J.
Due South: Only two significant pairings: RayV/Fraser and RayK/Fraser. But over time the volume of RayK/Fraser did supercede RayV fic, and it continues to outproduce RayV/F each year. He who USTs last, wins.
The Supernatural: Perhaps the most perfect example of the genre. Only two main characters, with great emotional tension... who cares if they're brothers?! It's all we got!

Bandom: Very much in the line of Last Man On Earth, except you have like 5 or 6 characters to instead of 2. Unique in that there is almost no real canon to speak of - just general character sketches.
See the fic laden fandoms for: NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, My Chemical Romance, Panic in a Disco(?)

Canon Based Shipping: These are the fandoms where romance relationships are a signifant plotline on the show, and the primary pairings mirror the canon focus. Often as 1 pairing receive a stronger canon blessing, it begins to also overtake the other in fandom. These key pairings will be m/m if that's the deal on the show, m/f if that's the show couple, even f/f (though the fandom will be smaller).
QAF US: Brian/Justin and Brian/Michael are the two major pairings, but B/J superceded B/M in content volume just as Brian picked Justin as his canon romantic lead.
Dawson's Creek: One of the very few fandoms I've run into that was driven primarely by het ships and het fic. There was a slash archive & yahoo groups, but it just couldn't compete. Dawson/Joey and Pacey/Joey owned this fandom, as they owned the show. P/J won out in canon, and ending up receiving the most fandom works (fic, videos). But Dawson/Joey wasn't too much behind, as was also reflected in canon. Slash was basically dominated by Pacey/Jack, which wasn't canon - but Jack is gay in canon and spends the most time socializing with Pacey of all the main guys on the show.
South of Nowhere: This is a more minor fandom, though there's definitely plenty of fic and vids created, but I thought I'd bring it up as another good example of the genre. This one's where the canon major romance on the show is two girls: Spencer/Ashley. There is a bit of fandom works for Ashley's other love interest, who's male - but just as the show 's Big Romance is S/A, so goes fandom's love.
SG-1: SG-1 belongs here for the het side. The volume of het fic for their main het pairing (Sam/Jack) matches the canon emphasis. It far surpasses its non-canon rivals Sam/Daniel and Sam/Teal'c. Daniel/Vala has gotten quite a bit of attention in the last couple of seasons, and has matching canon UST.

Re: Part 1: omg i talk SO MUCH.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Oh my God you are back. I mean, I saw you posting in your lj again (I have a *note to myself* to keep you friended because you will return! You will! There is just--gaps!), but *whee* and so much whee!

Um, will post for content of comment when I mull more. Also, *nice* and thank you for the breakdown so far.

omg I talk SO MUCH: Part 2

[silviakundera.livejournal.com]

[continued from Part 1. I am such a loser.]

Bring Your Own Subtext: These are those fandoms where people tend to pairing crazy - half the fun for some people in these fandoms is playing mix and match with the available characters. Everything is fair game. Actual femslash! Whee incest!
Harry Potter: As others have said, crazy segmentation and a proclivity to pair everyone off with the kitchen sink. But Harry/Hermoine, Ron/Hermoine, Draco/Hermoine, and Ginny/Draco all have vast amounts of het followers and fics. Draco/Harry, Snape/Harry, and Remus/Sirus are the primary slash pairings. All receive a large amount of attention.
Roswell: You could find at least 3 fics for any obscure pairing you could ever dream of, but major competing het pairings: Max/Liz, Michael/Liz. Slash pairings: Max/Michael, Max/Kyle
BtvS: Major het pairings: Buffy/Angel, Buffy/Spike (Willow/Angel, Will/Spike were heavier in the early yrs of fandom). Major slash: Angel/Spike, Angel/Xander, Xander/Spike. Major femslash pairings: Willow/Tara, Buffy/Faith

Movie Madness: Unexpected, inexplicable fandom surprises! Suddenly a movie comes out and people go nuts for a pairing. Only a couple hours of canon, where the pairing shares screen time with a number of other plot points and characters, and yet a large group of fen rush to their computers and begin shipping like mad. This fandom will tend have only 1 major pairing.
Star Wars: The Phantom Menace: A few filmed scenes brought us hundreds and hundreds of Qui-Gon/Obi-Wanfics - LONG fics.
The X-Men movie(s): Het version of this phenomenon. Wolverine/Rogue.
See also: I would probably classify The Foresaken under this heading as well, as a minor fandom.

Inexplicable OTP: There is just something about a certain pairing on the show that pushes a whole bunch of people's buttons. Maybe this is because the canon has big gay subtext, maybe we see what we want to see - shippers will say subtext, others may say no. Maybe fandom has difficulty writing people of color, maybe that's not it at all. Fandom participants and non-fandom participants can argue about justification, lack of justification, why, when, how until the cows come home... but it will not change the OTP fixation.
Highlander: No 100% proven reason that Duncan/Richie did not catch on... other than it didn't. Duncan/Methos wins in a landslide, despite having much less screen time.
SGA: Why for art thou Rodney/John, and not John/Ronon or Rodney/Ronon equally? John/Teyla and John/Elizabeth seem to share close to equal billing, but on the slash side it's OTP or bust.
SG-1: I think SG-1 probably belongs here for the slash side. Jack/Daniel doesn't have any serious competition in the slash fandom, despite Jack/Teal'c, Daniel/Teal'c, and Daniel/Cameron sharing quality screen time. (mentioning D/C as we didn't get the appropriate RayK-like shift)
Torchwood:I'm tentatively including Torchwood here instead of under Canon Based Shipping because (a) Jack/Ianto was quite popular before it truly received strong canon support in S2 and because (b) it overshadows Gwen/Jack so strongly in fandom, though G/J subtext still receives a lot of focus on the show. And I don't think G/J would overtake it in fandom even if she became Jack's primary canon partner. But it really could go either way... kind of like Jack! hee. ;)
Smallville: Clark/Chloe overtook the canon het pairing Lana/Clark in fandom's hearts. Clark/Lex far overshadowed Clark/Pete fic like whoa. [However: as Pete got less character development than Lex and less screen time, then left the show etc. and Clark has yet to find another long term relationship arc with any other male character... it may be that for the slash side this fandom might instead have more in common with Last Man On Earth]

[ladybugginout.livejournal.com]

I'm delurking to say I've really enjoyed this entry and all the comments it's spawned. I've read most of your SV stories and can say that I love all the ones I've read.

I have been a lurker in several fandoms, but SGA was never one of them until recently when I became overwhelmed by all of the blatant John/Ronon subtext on the show (and the HOTNESS). I was very sad to discover just how little fic there is out there that features the two of them. I've never been interested in John/Rodney. I'm not trying to bash them, it's just that the pairing does nothing for me. And I've never really seen the subtext that so many others see. I am in no way attracted to Rodney either which also makes it difficult. As a character, I like him and the dynamic he creates on the show, but I don't find him sexual in any way. To me, he seems to be presented as almost asexual, even in his relationship with Katie.

I have been breaking my usual lurker silence to comment on some of the John/Ronon fics I've found in an effort to encourage MORE. I'm hoping that as the subtext bewteen the two continues, more new fic will be written. I've considered attempting to write it myself, but it's been ages since I wrote a fic and I really don't have the time to write these days.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*hee* Encouragement is good!

I have an entry with a *lot* of recs, in case you haevn't seen it. HOld on.

http://seperis.livejournal.com/576274.html?style=mine

And elynross had some in her lj as well, late January I think. There may be a link to that in the entry.

[sally_maria]

From a fandom point of view I think J/Rodney very much plays into the classic smart guy/action guy slash dynamic that goes all the way back to Kirk/Spock. I think that you're probably going to get a lot of fans jumping on it for that reason. Certainly for those of us coming from SG-1 it was a very natural step to make, even though Rodney and Daniel are very different in lots of ways.

Another point I haven't seen mentioned is that I think for a lot of fans who like Rodney and self-identify as geeky, what they like about J/Rodney is that it brings out the side of John that they like. They like the hidden intelligence, but even more the hidden geekishness. They may find the soldier hot, but the guy they really want is the one who argues about Batman. I get the impression that J/Ronon is very much based in John the warrior, whereas J/Rodney is John the guy who wants to watch Doctor Who.

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

Now, my question--are there any fandoms who have had more than one major pairing of the same type at the same time? As in, more than one major slash and more than one major het?

Lotrips: Dom/Elijah, Dom/Billy, Viggo/Orli, Viggo/Bean

HP: Harry/Draco, Sirius/Remus, Snape/Remus, Snape/Harry

Avatar TLA: Aang/Katara, Zuko/Katara, Sokka/Suki, Sokka/Toph

As far as John/Ronon are concerned, I think the fact that Ronon came in after S1, when John/Rodney was already established as the main slash pairing, and the fact that the writers are incredibly uneven when it comes to writing Ronon (one of the worst is Gero, who most of fandom adores, and one of the best is Mallozzi, who's an asshole) are two of the big reasons that there's not as much John/Ronon as there should be (in my not at all humble opinion).

Another thing that occurred to me is that writing Ronon well involves doing some worldbuilding. We've gotten a lot more about Sateda in S3 & 4, but there's still an awful lot we don't know. Why did Ronon join up--did they have compulsory military service, or had he always planned to be career military? For that matter, why did Sateda have a standing army--just to fight the Wraith, or for some other reason? What was Ronon's family like? How did he get involved with Melena, and why weren't they actually married?

Worldbuilding is what I do, so I enjoy that, but if it's not your thing, it makes sense that John/Ronon would be your preferred pairing.

I don't get the "we get it all in canon", thing, I admit. There's a lot of John/Rodney in canon, especially if you're in it for the banter; wouldn't the same argument apply? And as slashers, we're never going to get it all in canon. That's why it's subtext, and that's why we write fic: to make the subtext text.

Also...

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

On the "Ronon doesn't talk" thing...that may have been true in Season 2, but at this point, I think it's become clear that he does talk--he just doesn't necessarily think most people are worth talking to. He clearly has a very dry sense of humor, and we usually see it directed at Rodney.

"Hey, maybe I'll get you one of those."

"Really?"

"No."

Plus, he's totally Mr. Empathy. He actually said the right things when Teyla told them she was pregnant, and in "Outcast", he knew when not to talk, and to give John space. I totally want to write something where Ronon had planned to go to school to become a shrink after his military service was over.