sgareview - common ground, s3e7 - the anti-squee

Well, some anti-squee, some clarification, some thinky stuff. To avoid fannish buzz-loss, all packaged in it's own neat area here.

Also, for the record--John is still perfect, still my favorite ep ever.



It's easier to number my annoyances, unlike my incoherence on Friday. Huh. In no particular order:

Carson:

1.) Okay, I'm in. Let the Carson-irritation free. Right here. This is freaking Seven of Nine of Voyager all over again, but at least I could *write* my way into zen with that one. Is this *happening*? Why is he in every episode, taking up premium screentime doing *nothing*?

I do not care what kind of wonderful rapport the actors have off-screen--it is not translating on-screen at all. I cannot believe I'm saying this--I am *not* of the wallflower wilting Rodney needs hugs and puppies constantly school of thought--but, Carson, back the fuck *off*. He's *field*. If he wants to order Marines and shoot mice? You smile and let him. He's combat experienced and he's faced a *shitload* more in a month than you do in a year, okay? Pardon my dramatic rendition here, but what the *hell* was that? Marines can mock Rodney--frankly, I'm of the opinion that Marines can mock anyone they damn well please, they are *scary* and they carry a lot of weapons, and they're Marines--and they *didn't*, cause hello? That's a field team member who is hysterical about his friend being tortured by the Wraith and they can totally get that. You, my friend, are not a Marine. Shut up.

What are the writers *thinking*? Are they reading this out loud and seeing how it *sounds*? I can take it on a textual or metatextual level, and either way, someone needs to take away the keyboard and say, hey, stop making Carson look like an asshole.

2.) Why is he on strike-team missions? I hate using Rodney constantly as a barometer, but he's the only other civilian and so he's the comparison--again, Rodney's *field-trained* and that's his team leader and friend. Him going along isn't mindbogglingly freaky. Carson going along as a medic--okay. But why, why, why is he with a scary strike team here? Medic in jumper. God, this is Sateda all over again, where I can't figure out why in the name of God they're pushing Carson so hard at us so badly.

I mean, I get there are logical reasons behind this that can and have been made, and I'm not arguing with that. But my kneejerk is that it feels forced and just--too much. In every ep so far he's been way too front and center compared to, oh, the last two seasons, and in comparison to his actal role. I do get that the writers are trying to show sga expedition love and etc and okay, if this is what I have to deal with to get the characters having character moments, I'll live. But if he's going to be shoved into this, at lesat, minimum, give him a practical reason to be there.

Genii:

3.) I have serious reservations about Layden. a.) I still can't quite figure out or remember how to spell his name and b.) He's officially admitted he's a backstabber. Which we already knew from Cowen, but none of us liked Cowen anyway. I kind of like Kolya. On a purely illogical level, I really wanted Elizabeth to make that trade, cause John being tortured hurts and makes me wince and makes me want to break things. But a tiny part of me--and for that matter, a part of every person dealing with Layden--knows he's going to fuck Atlantis over when he's got a good opportunity. This guy is not just not trustworthy--he's not trustworthy and he's--slimey. It's like dealing with a serpent. You come away feeling faintly sick and need a serious shower. Kolya's a soldier--he's passionate and vicious and I'm thinking lately a little around the bend mentally, but he's a soldier--he might fuck you over, but he'll do it to your face. Torturing John he never gets my forgiveness for, but it was never personal, he never enjoyed it, never didn't acknowledge what he was reduced to doing, what it cost him, what he *knew* he was giving up in humanity in doing it. It was in his face and his body, the acknowledgement of those things. He let revenge be everything and anything. He tortured a man with the Pegasus galaxy's living nightmare for the sake of revenge, but he didn't like it.

Layden would have done that, for less reason, and liked it. And that's this gut reaction to every smooth word Layden poured out and I was more and more convinced that while dealing with terrorist Genii Kolya might be a mistake--Layden's leadership of the Genii would be moreso. Elizabeth could not make that trade without a better--or more politically aware--reason than saving John. But she wanted to, and I suspect it's for that same gut feeling.

Ronon

4.) I love, love, love Ronon's single-minded determination to get his favoritest commander ever back. I do. I really do. But seriously, tone it down. I'm sorry, but you officially lost your free pass on being caveman stupid when we got to see Sateda and you were nailing a doctor. I love when you are grrr and scary and omgmustsavesheppard! Trust me on this--you get so many free passes for that you have no idea--but my God, one notch is all I'm asking here.

Also, your stripperesque gear? Let's take that back a notch so it's all ooh hot newness again, and less, wow, where do you shop, Frederick's of Hollywood? Every. Week. We all get he is alien and muscular and omghot. But it gets boring if that's all we get to see.

I'm--wow, done. Carson was pretty much the bulk; he's just too noticeable doing nothing and standing around. Gah. OTOH? God. *John*. Still in the paper bag mode.



God I love this icon. I need to get a whole plethora of icons with John looking various stages of omghot and omgdangerous and omggoofy and--well, John like. Happy place.

Comments

[kho.livejournal.com]

1 & 2. I think we're having the same problem with Carson that we have with Rodney when certain writers write him. Not to go on a Rodney tirade or anything, but very few writers get him and write him to his fullest... Two, as a matter of fact, being Gero and Binder. And not to pick on Cooper, but to u se him as an example of all of those that don't "get" Rodney... What he does is he takes this charicature of Rodney, his loudest, most blatant, most obvious aspects, and he plays with those. And I'm not saying that he doesn't write Rodney funny, I laughed with the morphine drip too, but... That's ALL he does. Gero and Binder give him soul beneath the outward whatever, and I'm sure you could say that better, but I think you know what I mean.

The bigger problem with Carson is that... that's what they're doing. They're going "hey, we have prior evidence of Carson/Rodney snark/banter, let's play that up" and then they tack on some empathy (for everyone BUT Rodney) and heart-on-the-sleeveness, but they don't give us a full Carson. It's a bigger problem because... well. Who IS the full Carson? I'm afraid they haven't mapped him out and shown him to us well AT ALL. And maybe they want to be doing that this season by giving him so much more screentime, but it's that age old addage-- quality not quantity, writers. I don't need to see Carson's FACE more, I need to see who Carson IS more.

3. See, I just need to point people to your explanation on Kolya to point out why yes, I do like him. Kolya is not about going behind your back and sneaking and trickery... Yes, yes, strike team, covert ops, yes, he's a SOLDIER, he does that. But he's not gonna be all buddy buddy with you and then stab you in the back, which Laydon absolutely WILL do (and has done, um, twice now, TO HIS OWN PEOPLE.) Kolya is straight up a stone-cold soldier, ad he doesn't mince words about it.

In fact, I fully believe that he respects the hell out of Sheppard for his soldiering skills, and he said as much during this very episode. I also fully believe that he respects Rodney's genius.

I don't know, maybe it's my Robert Davi love speaking, but even if Kolya is a bad nasty person (which I'm not even saying he's not) I still am utterly fascinated by his character. I can full on get behind a badass if they're done right. And the writer this episode I don't think did Kolya right, but Davi took what he got and he did his best with it.

And yeah. He'll do what he thinks needs to be done, but he doesn't take pleasure in it. Which is why he's not a psychopath, he's not evil, he's not 'out to get you.' He's just *willing* to get you, if that's what it takes.

4. Yeah. I'm still pretty much "mmmm, Ronon" all the time. But yeah, he did growl a bit much in this episode. My favorite Ronon is the silent stalking "i will fuck a bitch UP" Ronon, who doesn't growl so much as just... stand there, EMOTING his growl.

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

Someone who makes icons needs to make an "Emoting his growl" Ronon icon.

[tenillypo.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't be half as irritated with the Carson stuff if the writers hadn't worked so hard in the past to convince us all that he's such an absolute ninny when it comes to dealing with weaponry and danger. I mean, as recently as the first episode of this season, we had Carson literally sweating and shaking with terror at the thought of operating the weapons chair. They have pushed the fact that he's not a field guy down our throats for so long and then turned around and inexplicably decided to upgrade him to Rambo in the space of three episodes and IT MAKES NO SENSE. I just--I swear. Do these guys even watch the show they're creating?

*boggles*

[enname.livejournal.com]

I think you might have copped part of my Sateda rant with Carson, and I whilst Progeny made me feel better in that regard (Oh thank heavens it is JUST the team and Elizabeth this time, which is odd but at least Elizabeth was clearly 'leader' and not part of the gang) this did it again. It is not the fact that he is there, but the fact that he seems to think he is part of the team. As in the SGA-1 team that goes offworld. He has been out and about with them before and not annoyed me, but now? It is like he is squeezing his way in and it makes no sense. None whatsoever because seriously, he doesn't have that chemistry that Ronon, John, Teyla and Rodney have together and it shows. Nor is he offworld, meant to be field trained and I just can't see him having that same level of concern over John - he is primarily concerned over his health.

Stop shoving him into the team people, he doesn't fit. Especially when the only way he can seem to do it is to belittle Rodney or overtake Teyla's voice of reason. Seriously - do any of the team pay any attention to him when he isn't speaking? I've not seen it.

*goes off to gnaw things in rage and frustration*

Lordy I appear to have a terribly strong OT4

[spikedluv]

sp23 pointed me here, and I could hug both of you. I had the same complaints about Carson and Ronon in this episode, and I was thrilled to see them spelled out so much better by you than I managed in my comments. *g*

[atlantis-fan.livejournal.com]

Could I just ask a question? Why exactly was Carson's question about what the heck Rodney was doing such a big problem? When I watched the scene I wondered what the heck Rodney thought he was doing ordering the Marines around. He's a civilian, it's not his place to do anything like that. I thought Carson asked a valid question of "WTF Rodney"? And before you ask - I love Rodney, he's my favorit character but I just don't get why every wants to defend him from Carson (and John sometimes) who I also like. I honestly don't see a problem with anything Carson has ever done... And I also think BOTH of them are sarcastic with each other all the time so I don't think it's JUST Carson doing something.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I'ts not just Carson doing something. IT's Carson, constantly, everywhere, even when he doesn't need to be, and it wears heavily on the nerves. And hey, the thing is, I'm *not* a Rodney fangirl and I default to enjoying the sarcasm.

I mean, I get this is knee-jerk, but I think someone above stated it best that Carson is coming off as condesending in a way he doesn't have the right to be, considering both his and Rodney's positions. And it's fairly constant in their current interaction. See, the thing is, Teyla saying that, Ronon saying that, Sheppard saying that, a Marine or Elizabeth saying that--that would have worked. Four of five are actual military people, and they have a certain level of mocking privilege. Three of five are Rodney's teammates on a mixed military/science team. They can say that. Elizabeth would make me twitch, but she's leader of Atlantis. Sure. Carson? Is not military, not field. So it feels wrong. Wehther the writers meant it to read like that, I have no idea, but after the Carson and Rodney argument in Sateda--which equally got on my nerves, though at the time, I didn't realize the writers were doing this *deliberately*--he's commenting on something he really doesn't have any knowledge of or say in.

YMMV.

[atlantis-fan.livejournal.com]

Okay obviously I'm seeing it very differently. And I really don't get why you would say that anyone else saying it would have been okay but not Carson saying it. That just does NOT make any sense at all to me at all. I know you say that Carson is not field and Rodney is but - come on they are all living in a war zone no matter if they stay in the city or not. They all have had first hand contact with the Wraith.

Which Carson and Rodney argument in Sateda are you talking about? The one on the ship or the one in the Puddle Jumper over the gun? The first one I didn't really think was an argument - just them being their usual snarky selves with each other. The second I will agree was over the top and stupid - BUT see I always blame the writers for stuff like this - not the Characters.

*sigh* I really don't get it and probably the best thing to do is to agree to disagree....

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Definitely agree to disagree on this point. It can be seen differently--at this point, to me, it's a build up of several eps that Carson's actions don't correlate with earlier eps, adn that on top of some of his dialogue bothers me. But it's definitely a personal take on the sitch.

[atlantis-fan.livejournal.com]

*nods* yeah it just occured to me after I hit post that the whole thing has more to with a build up of things rather than just this one event. (I tend to focus on one episode at a time without really think about what's happend in other episdoes). So anyway agree to disagree and all that... sorry for taking up time on your lj... I just wanted to see if I could understand your POV better I think in some ways I do get where you guys are coming from I just don't agree with the reasons...

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Hee! I'm very aware if I'm going to take a negative tack, people are going disagree, and I do not mind that. Much. *thoughtful* Usually, it tends to either bring together what I'm thinking more clearly or make me rethink, so you know, feel free to disagree on whatever.

And I really should have clarified it's a--build up of things, not this single ep all on its own, but on top, just finally set off my irritation wiht how they handle the character.

[fluffyllama.livejournal.com]

On Ronon: Absolutely true, but right now I'm just grateful for any episode he doesn't carry small children out of danger.

(Wandered over from the newsletter, although really, I get pointed over here so often I should probably de-lurk anyway :D)

[neviachiel.livejournal.com]

Here via the newsletter-

I *completely* agree about Carson. I didn't know that about PM's contract, but it makes a little more sense now why they've thrown him into every ep, when he soo does not need to be present. I'm getting really tired of the gratuitous Carson scenes (especially since I never really liked him that much in the first place).

[seekergeek.livejournal.com]

I loved this ep with the passion of a thousand suns. I also agree completely with you on the anti-squee. I used to like Carson but I've now gotten to the point where I want him locked in the infirmary with a hefty wrapping of duct tape around his mouth. I'm ready to hit Ronon with a tranq gun full of Valium as well. And I weep to see Teyla so under-utilized. *sighs*

[secretlybronte.livejournal.com]

I'm so with you on Carson. Working my nerves big time. There's no warmth in his teasing of Rodney. It comes across almost as malicious. I'm sorry to say it, but I think it's at least partially on the actor here. He doesn't give up any hint of amusement, only exasperation.

This is the only bit of negativity I've seen on this episode, but I've got a bone to pick with TPTB. In the pre-ep descriptions, we were told that we were going to learn about John's backstory and, specifically, why he joined the military. Did I go nuts and miss five minutes of the show? I haven't seen anyone mention this, but I was really angry after the episode (having waited excitedly all week) and I was certain that fandom was going to be irked, too. Evidently not. :)

Do still love John with an unhealthy fervor, so I guess they knew what they were doing.

[nimnod.livejournal.com]

Would you believe I actually read that whole thread? And at work? They'd hate to know what they're paying me for ;)I've added you as a friend, because you're the first person I've met (although you seems to know lots of others!) who can actually rant on about SGA more than me, and that's gooood ;) Ho, um. Hi.