seperis | yeah, no, and fuck you

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Crossposts: http://seperis.livejournal.com/921432.html

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yeah, no, and fuck you

Really.

On behalf of those of us who were and are single women on welfare with children in the South and at some point in our lives lived in a--I need to check the wording--"rural south USA in a welfare slum trailer"--and who do not think our population should be fodder for your smug little war on the word shack:

Fuck. You.

Are you fucking serious?

Are you comparing lower income women's lives--and since you used the word 'welfare', we all know you're talking about women, who make up the majority of welfare clients; women, whose choices and lives are limited by poverty and the difficulties raising children alone, without spousal support; poor urban women, a population that is statistically more likely to be battered by their male partner--to a fucking challenge using the word shack?

I suppose

indywind felt it was 'problematic' to use the term 'trailer trash'; should I be grateful? Thank you. Your buddies in that thread who were so excited to read it--and that super clever "Now them's fightin' words!!!" jab--also have my abject gratitude that parts of my life--and my family, friends, and clients from when I was a caseworker who decided benefits for those renters of "rural south USA in a welfare slum trailer"--are being held up in humourous example of how southern poverty is totally like using the word shack. I feel as if social justice is on my side.

So, my night is shit. How's everyone else doing?

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Oh, someone worked in Katrina too. Awesome.

...one of them worked in Katrina? Holy God.

Because writing stories set in post-Katrina FEMA trailers would be equivalent. Or would show those fucking Americans. Or something.

(I love you, but I have to stop following your links, I swear. I'm about to fricking hyperventilate over this.)

I took a nap after work thinking it would calm me down. It--didn't, at all.

Because writing stories set in post-Katrina FEMA trailers would be equivalent. Or would show those fucking Americans. Or something.

I'm trying to work out who she's trying to 'show'; poor people in trailers who are in fandom? That's fucked up on a variety of levels.

That is my paraphrase, by the way, not a direct quote.

No. I was pointing out that writing cheerful happy porn about white people which uses the background of something that involves significant suffering of the disadvantaged and those targeted by racism is, in and of itself, racist and classist and I would like people to stop doing it.

I DON'T WANT people to write that fic. I also don't want people to write happy white guy porn using settings I grew up in which are subject to the disasters, huge amounts of racism, huge amounts of poverty and social neglect, and contains friends and relatives of mine.

I'm very sorry (genuinely) if the way I framed things did not get across, and that's my flaw. But what you're taking from this is NOT what I meant.

Your clever, clever intent does not matter. How is this hard to understand? To show off your social progressivism, a disgusting stereotype was dragged out and aired to show how smart and liberal you are; what it showed was a dramatic misunderstanding of poverty, and a stereotype bordering on fetish for what seems to be some idea of what Southern poverty--Southern rural poverty--Southern rural poverty in a slum, Southern rural poverty in a slum involving a trailer. Involving a population majority women and often majority Black and Hispanic.

If you aren't getting how utterly revolting this was, that it was equally disgusting in context, then I have nothing more to add. Your intent was just as disgusting.

Actually, all I was trying to say was that "conditions in post-Katrina Louisiana were bad and serious and unjust, and it would be shitty to write happy porn fic in that area." I used it because the Attawapiskat people were also moved after a natural disaster, and because that population is also majority women, and majority First Nations - not white. And that this is the association I have with "shacks" in Canada, and with the areas in which these fics are set.

You're right. On the level that I was using it above, I don't see how the comparison is completely revolting. I was saying that it is uncool to use either for porn. I was saying it is uncool to fetishize either or use it for a backdrop for your light-hearted fiction. That is all I've been saying.

I am genuinely sorry that I have upset you this much, and that in my own anger my entry here was what it was.

Edited 2012-01-12 04:49 (UTC)

Please be progressive somewhere else, and leave my family, friends, and former clients out of it. I think we've had enough people being on our side and confirming disgusting stereotypes for really important reasons for one day. We have the entire US conservative movement doing it; we don't need help with that, thanks.

To writing stories about Canadian shacks when the people living in fucking Canadian shacks are the rural poor in the middle of a racist housing crisis?

Yes. It would.

...those poor southern trailer slum dwellers will totally be taught a valuable lesson. Thank god someone is here to tell them.

See my other comment.

I would also gently point out that you're making a number of assumptions. As

indywind pointed out, zie would be writing from personal experience - otherwise known as, zie lived in what zie would be writing about.

Our intent was not, at any point, to belittle or degrade those living in difficult circumstances. Some of the people in those threads are those people. Some of them used to be. Some of us have or currently do work in the Northern communities we're talking about.

What we're saying is that this meme hits us that way. Because the places that meme writes about are the places where our society has fucking failed people, where people are forced to live in awful circumstances they did not deserve or create, but were created for them by natural disasters or by racism and bureacratic indifference to straight up bureaucratic malice, and thus having those places be space for thoughtless happy funtimes porn between well-off white guys is kind of upsetting.

The people currently living in the real "Canadian shacks" were moved because of a flood and then left there to die of malicious neglect, and now our government is blaming them. So the meme is kind of a spit in the face for those of us for whom that's a major context.

Again, I genuinely apologize for using examples that apparently hit painful buttons for you, but I was not trying to belittle those people or degrade them. I was trying to draw a comparison I thought an American would understand, because Americans don't tend to know anything about Canada, especially northern Canada, so just mentioning the social issues tends to go woosh.

No, that shit was a revolting stereotype and you used it to score points on an actual social issue.

Seriously, stop. You're making it worse with every comment. This isn't an apology when you're not actually sorry for saying something that was offensive and have yet to acknowledge your example was wrong on every level possible.

As you wish. I actually am sorry that in my attempt to get a point across, I tread on this minefield, and that in my own frustration I entered as I did. I hope your night improves.

Attempt to not perpetuate stereotypes for greater justice on your way out, would you? The poor rural south slum trailer dwellers would appreciate the consideration.

Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure the last time I told someone to go fuck themselves on the internet was about Katrina.

Go fuck yourself.

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