Hi, here via ithiliana1. I'm still figuring out exactly what I think on these topics so this isn't so much a strong disagreement as poking at your arguments to understand them better.
First off: 100% agreement that a lot of the Twilighter hate has an underlying misogyny which blames and shames young girls for the crime of letting their tastes be influenced by the sexist society they live in. Also, I don't think they should be forbidden from reading the books.
But I'm not sure it's always wrong to discourage them from reading them, or at least say "Read it if you like, but keep in mind that...".
Point 1) I think part of the problem here is that you're defending an imaginary 12 year old you, while I'm defending an imaginary 12 year old me. Young-you could deal with anything they read and would be distressed by being told her fantasies were bad, fair enough. I worked differently. If I have a daughter I will do what I feel is best for her, and depending on if she takes after me or not that may mean semi-restricting her reading. Given these differences I agree it's wrong to say ALL girls should be kept away from these books, but I also think it's wrong to decry individual parents making decisions you wouldn't for their children.
My first boyfriend at 17 was rather Edward-like ie a good-looking strong-and-silent emotionally abusive control freak2. And I distinctly remember thinking "Romantic fiction lied to me, this sucks". I'm not saying any individual story is 100% responsible, but there have been many things I "learned" from their repeated use in fiction ie (up until recently) my (VERY DODGY) entire understanding of native american culture. I remember reading "The Horse and his boy" as a christian kid without much grounding in theology and thinking "This story has the moral that muslims are satanists. That seems kind of racist. But everyone says this is a good book and the author seems to know what he's talking about, if it was racist surely someone would have said something. Maybe Allah is evil but muslims are nice?". Similarly I started wondering if wearing pantyhose and lipstick was a sin. My mum would watch movies with me and point out all the classist etc bits while still leaving space for us to enjoy them which I think was the best approach for me. She didn't keep as close an eye on my reading and this didn't work out as well.
Point 2) I know vee_fic had a kind of similar argument above, but I don't agree with her take. Anyway: I realise that those of us who are squicked by non-con etc can just avoid it etc (esp in fan-fiction), and I have my own (to others disturbing) narrative kinks I love reading but wouldn't approve of in real life. But personally I find that a story really doesn't have to be very sexist/classist/racist etc for me to find it way too offensive to enjoy even if it does hit my narrative kinks. And as I learn more about sexism and racism etc I find more and more stories offensive: I can't just turn off my brain and enjoy them as a story. So the only way for me to enjoy a book like Twilight3 would be if I did subscribe to the sexist cliche, at least a bit. I can't draw that line between fantasy and reality so easily4. So again, you are assuming that all Twilight fans are making the same fantasy vs reality distinction you do when reading it, while I'm assuming they must be as messed up as I would have to be to read it. The truth is probably a mix of the two, but certainly some of them seem to be unable to draw the distinction you do.
Sorry for the tl;dr, you got me thinking :)
(1)Who is on my flist, and with whom I forsee a meaty conversation when I get my thoughts together and post a long rant she disagrees with :D (2)Not so much with the stalking and undead thing, though. So, like Edward but better! (3) Well, a better written version, that put me off before the sexism :) (4) Fiction and reality, yes, but for me to vicariously enjoy a romance fantasy I have to be able to imagine myself happy in that relationship. As a tangent, this is why I like femslash more than slash.
Part one (Yeah, sorry)
First off: 100% agreement that a lot of the Twilighter hate has an underlying misogyny which blames and shames young girls for the crime of letting their tastes be influenced by the sexist society they live in. Also, I don't think they should be forbidden from reading the books.
But I'm not sure it's always wrong to discourage them from reading them, or at least say "Read it if you like, but keep in mind that...".
Point 1) I think part of the problem here is that you're defending an imaginary 12 year old you, while I'm defending an imaginary 12 year old me. Young-you could deal with anything they read and would be distressed by being told her fantasies were bad, fair enough. I worked differently. If I have a daughter I will do what I feel is best for her, and depending on if she takes after me or not that may mean semi-restricting her reading. Given these differences I agree it's wrong to say ALL girls should be kept away from these books, but I also think it's wrong to decry individual parents making decisions you wouldn't for their children.
My first boyfriend at 17 was rather Edward-like ie a good-looking strong-and-silent emotionally abusive control freak2. And I distinctly remember thinking "Romantic fiction lied to me, this sucks". I'm not saying any individual story is 100% responsible, but there have been many things I "learned" from their repeated use in fiction ie (up until recently) my (VERY DODGY) entire understanding of native american culture. I remember reading "The Horse and his boy" as a christian kid without much grounding in theology and thinking "This story has the moral that muslims are satanists. That seems kind of racist. But everyone says this is a good book and the author seems to know what he's talking about, if it was racist surely someone would have said something. Maybe Allah is evil but muslims are nice?". Similarly I started wondering if wearing pantyhose and lipstick was a sin. My mum would watch movies with me and point out all the classist etc bits while still leaving space for us to enjoy them which I think was the best approach for me. She didn't keep as close an eye on my reading and this didn't work out as well.
Point 2) I know
Sorry for the tl;dr, you got me thinking :)
(1)Who is on my flist, and with whom I forsee a meaty conversation when I get my thoughts together and post a long rant she disagrees with :D
(2)Not so much with the stalking and undead thing, though. So, like Edward but better!
(3) Well, a better written version, that put me off before the sexism :)
(4) Fiction and reality, yes, but for me to vicariously enjoy a romance fantasy I have to be able to imagine myself happy in that relationship. As a tangent, this is why I like femslash more than slash.