huh. squee range.

[seperis]

Okay, so finally I sat down to sort through my bookmarks to read discussion on cesperanza's new fic--because I have done my homework. (Really. I mean, not all! But you know, some random amount.) So I deserve a reward. And chocolate milk.

Except--um. Is anyone discussing it *not* a member of academia or just really conversant with the themes of that? This is odd--but this is the first time in fandom I've felt my sheer lack of a degree in anything this strongly, because I am seriously *not able to follow* or really get into any discussion I've seen so far. But mostly, I just don't get what's being discussed. Okay, it's more the 'why' of what is being talked about. But it's also the feeling that I'm reading something in German but in this case, even throwing it through the translators isn't helping, as I have no translators and seriously. What are you people talking about?

It's very--I don't know. I wish for squee, but no place is squeeing on a level of "oh my god this is so awesome remember the part with the chair room" but mostly on the "did you notice the dissertation and footnotes of the x, y, z, it reminds me of that time back when I was teaching Very Horrifically Difficult Literature..." I am on a different squee range.

Er. That's kind of an exaggeration, but mostly not, because I'm serious, ,I am seeing in otherwise accessible ljs this entire--I don't know. It's like I'm missing some huge chunk of context. I keep having to fight down the urge to ask "WHY ARE WE DISCUSSING FOOTNOTE FORMAT" or something, because oh my God.

If I ask for an explanation of the squee range, is that going to show just dreadfully my terribly non-high-literature-inclinations so much that all will lose respect for me or something? I'm seriously kind of dazed by how inaccessible I'm finding a lot of these conversations.

Help? I'm kind of moving from dazed to the 'frustrated and annoyed' place and that can only end in staring resentfully at my laptop and eating way too much haagen-daz.

ETA: I now have people doing threads of squee and non-academic meta discussion. I have found nirvana. Yay!

Comments

[zoniduck.livejournal.com]

I believe the comments on this post (http://sheafrotherdon.livejournal.com/172900.html) in sheafrotherdon's LJ might have what you're looking for.

[klo-the-hobbit.livejournal.com]

Oh thank god I'm not the only one *flails* I got a B in GCSE English and never studied any further and I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. I feel like I massively missed something.

[ratcreature]

I have no help, except that I sympathize, what with not having any such background either. FWIW I just enjoyed it at a story, and the text fragments and such mostly worked for me not because of any academic squee, but because they fit still in the timeline just like an extra outsider POV nad it still read like a real narrative, rather than some formalistic experiment.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Oh thank God.

*marks*

[seperis.livejournal.com]

YES! *clutches* Okay, I was just--blank. Blank blank blank and that is just--you know, I'm aware fandom is made up of a lot of intellectual academia types? But wow. This was just--something else.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

That's kind of what I got out of it, once I got used to it intratext. So I was kinda shocky to find everything being said pretty much not *about* the story, but on the level of meta of meta of *meta* and started feeling--er. Weird.

[trobadora]

You know, that is weird - most of what I recall seeing was just incoherent squee of the "OMG SO AWESOME I HAVE NO WORDS" variety. I've been wishing for some more in-depth discussion!

[klo-the-hobbit.livejournal.com]

I spend my entire time feeling slightly overwhelmed by fandoms collective intellect but FOOTNOTES. EPIC POETRY. GREGORIAN CHANTS. I.. just... *boggles*
And its going to be this massive thing in fandom and I'm not going to understand any of it. It makes me sad.

[summertea.livejournal.com]

I completely feel you. I have no idea what all the academics are talking about, and didn't even completely understand aesc's fic.

D:

[apetslife.livejournal.com]

One of the reasons I didn't go further in my own academic study of Very Difficult Literature is that I realized that I really and truly do not enjoy lit-crit. In any way, shape, or form. It's awesome for some people and they love it to bits, but I found it was actually HURTING my enjoyment of reading, so I stopped.

And now I read fanfiction and literature and books and all kinds of writing from the point of view of, am I enjoying this story? Do I dig these characters and get excited and sad and happy and hopeful for them? If the answer is yes, I settle in and read, content.

So you're not the only one. I loved that story, I enjoyed the cool formatting and the extra media and the clever writing and the STORY, and that's that! *grin*

[cottontail.livejournal.com]

I haven't admitted this yet but... I didn't see the squee at all in that story. And I think I'm the only one who doesn't. So... at least you are on some level of squee instead of way out here in "What squee?" land with me.

I really loved the premise and the first half or so of excerpts (did I spell that correctly?) from history books about Atlantis and John's personality type and then Rodney's and the debate about if they were lovers or not. But once the story came into play I lost my path and couldn't finish. *hangs head* I feel like I'm dumb or not a good fangirl for not finishing it. :(

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I tried and got lost and gave up on the fannish byproducts bits. I just couldn't get it.

And yeah, it's depressing.

[ratcreature]

*nod* *nod*
I have to admit that I've just avoided that kind of discussion, because I'm mostly content with my quiet squee, and don't have a footnote fetish, so I don't want any with my squee. To be honest my relationship to footnotes and ultra-academic discourse (with that I don't mean academic results and such per se, but more the way of talking that makes any cool thing they find out and talk about really complicated and impenetrable) is more of a squick, so...

[frogspace.livejournal.com]

So I was kinda shocky to find everything being said pretty much not *about* the story, but on the level of meta of meta of *meta* and started feeling--er. Weird.

I found that kind of frustrating too. The story was amazing. The theme, the powerful emotions behind the big decisions that literally change the world, the characters, the outsider POV that gave insight into what was going on with the characters when they wouldn't tell us; how politics happen but history is made... The meta was really secondary for me in that it had a function within the story but it was not what I was reading the story for.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*grins* I may be uncomfortably biased--the first two things I hit were some kind of epic poem and then a thread redirect that was talking about something in regard to literary tradition and *then* about the structure and shut it down to sulk for a while.

Cause for serious, meta of meta is awesome? But direct squee and discussion of source independent of metatext would be nice too.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Nah. It's a taste thing. I mean, I have a huge thing for JOhn King of Atlantis, so I hit that and went into deep-squee mode. *G* And a huge kink for Atlantis-seceding from earth.

(to be honest, it took me a while to get into the excerpts. I mean, they were really cool once I was? But at first, I kept trying to skip them and get to the *story* and realized that I had no idea what was going on without them.)

[klo-the-hobbit.livejournal.com]

Good for you for coming out! I got a bit disillusioned by the middle of the story and only finished because I felt like I had to. The wedding and the aftermath really jarred me out of the story actually. He cheated on him and I just didn't feel like they dealt with it. *flails* I dunno. I just don't think I'm smart enough to get it.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*sits with you in solidarity*

You mean the poem? *chews lip* Yeah. I'm still not sure what's up with that one.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Yes! Exactly!

[trobadora]

I saw and loved the epic poem - it's fanfic of fanfic, what's not to love? *g* But apart from that, I really don't recall seeing much that went beyond "OMG SO AWESOME"...

And I think one reason why fans are so drawn to a story that enacts academic debate is because academic debate is just like fandom. I mean - all the historians arguing about what really happened? That is us, arguing what's canon and what's not.

[cottontail.livejournal.com]

There was marriage and cheating!? I didn't get to that.

[klo-the-hobbit.livejournal.com]

I haven't even tried. I looked at the posts and sort of... freaked out. My eyes went all *HUGECHIBISCARED* and I ran away to hide in a place of OOH LOOK A FIC WHERE JOHN IS A CAT! Cute and on a level my brain can deal with *nods solemnly*

[seperis.livejournal.com]

*nods* I was actually kind of surprised by my own reaction. I usually *like* meta. It just felt like this meta was really--not something I could understand.

[j00j.livejournal.com]

Ideally (although certainly not always in fact), in fandom there's room to approach texts from different perspectives. So yeah, bring on the request for explanations. And dude, there should totally be squee about the plot of the story as well as OMG BIBLIOGRAPHY LOVE. Of course, I say this as someone with a BA from a school where I was definitely exposed to this sort of historical discourse, I'm currently in a masters program, and I've spent most of my life surrounded by academics... So I've got the cultural capital (1) to understand the discussion. At the same time, I sort of get where you're coming from, since I made a decision NOT to seek that kind of academic career, because I didn't want to spend my life making the kinds of arguments the historians in "Written By The Victors" are making. There comes a point where I just don't CARE anymore about academic wankery (2) and footnotes and deconstruction. Though that's a part of what made this story fun for me, I think... Ultimately the story's about our characters, and what they actually did, and why they actually did it. And then we watch the historians fumble around trying to interpret it, and you can see them all going "I wish I could've seen it all" and "I wish we could know what happened for sure," and they CAN'T. But we, the readers can.

I don't know if that was at all constructive or helpful. But it's some of what I've been thinking about with this story.

(1) OMG social science jargon. Think financial capital, except it's knowledge, skills, education, and so forth that I've got due to my family background and such.
(2) oh yeah, do academics have wank. there should be an academic version of fandom_wank. If there isn't already. Is there?

[cottontail.livejournal.com]

I don't really have that Atlantis-seceding thing like a lot of people seem to. I like them interacting with Earth now and then. I don't want Rodney to be without coffee supply and John without new video games to play or whatever. :)

I loved the excerpts most because it's from outside points of view and I always like to read that stuff when it's about John/Rodney.