seperis | huh. squee range.

Okay, so finally I sat down to sort through my bookmarks to read discussion on

cesperanza's new fic--because I have done my homework. (Really. I mean, not all! But you know, some random amount.) So I deserve a reward. And chocolate milk.

Except--um. Is anyone discussing it *not* a member of academia or just really conversant with the themes of that? This is odd--but this is the first time in fandom I've felt my sheer lack of a degree in anything this strongly, because I am seriously *not able to follow* or really get into any discussion I've seen so far. But mostly, I just don't get what's being discussed. Okay, it's more the 'why' of what is being talked about. But it's also the feeling that I'm reading something in German but in this case, even throwing it through the translators isn't helping, as I have no translators and seriously. What are you people talking about?

It's very--I don't know. I wish for squee, but no place is squeeing on a level of "oh my god this is so awesome remember the part with the chair room" but mostly on the "did you notice the dissertation and footnotes of the x, y, z, it reminds me of that time back when I was teaching Very Horrifically Difficult Literature..." I am on a different squee range.

Er. That's kind of an exaggeration, but mostly not, because I'm serious, ,I am seeing in otherwise accessible ljs this entire--I don't know. It's like I'm missing some huge chunk of context. I keep having to fight down the urge to ask "WHY ARE WE DISCUSSING FOOTNOTE FORMAT" or something, because oh my God.

If I ask for an explanation of the squee range, is that going to show just dreadfully my terribly non-high-literature-inclinations so much that all will lose respect for me or something? I'm seriously kind of dazed by how inaccessible I'm finding a lot of these conversations.

Help? I'm kind of moving from dazed to the 'frustrated and annoyed' place and that can only end in staring resentfully at my laptop and eating way too much haagen-daz.

ETA: I now have people doing threads of squee and non-academic meta discussion. I have found nirvana. Yay!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Well. See, this is where I get a little--conflicted.

I can see the value of creating the political alliance, as well as the fact that the symbolism aspect was brought up earlier in regards to the army (and implied by the thing in the marketplace) but I honestly wasn't sure--I think I needed more context. I would have *loved* the scene where Ronon introduced it, just to see the arguments pro and con, adn everyone's initial reaction, and the reaons it needed to be done so quickly (this was like, only a few months after secession?). So that kind of confused me. I just wasn't entirely sure of the context of that choice.

(I'd also like to know when Dex and Teyla broke up; I thought it was after the diplomats were thrown out, but the historical stuff implied that she was involved with her second command *before* they left, so I wasn't sure what was with that one. And the dogtags; I originally thought they were talking about Rodney wearing John's, except the timeline was wrong for that, too, but argh. I am so overthinking.)

I read the sex as not so much John/Teyla, but more John/Atlantis using Teyla's body, but that could be just me.

That last post got a little screwed up, so here's the readable version.

I was onboard with the political alliance. I really liked the idea of it. In fact, while I completely sympathized with Rodney and wasn't angry at him, I did think he needed to grow up a little and realize that this was something that needed to be done and was not all about him. Yes, he agreed to it, but considering that both John and Teyla were making a not-small sacrifice here by giving up a big chunk of their personal lives in order to take on these fairly oppressive life-long roles, I did want him to realize he wasn't the only one paying for this. And for him to have more faith in his friends who deserved to be trusted because they'd never betray him like that, except, oh, they did. So instead of Rodney realizing that they'd taken on something huge here and having to let go of some his earlier hurt over past relationships, he got to play the noble and ultimately forgiving victim.

I agree with you that the whole political alliance thing was rushed, but I found the whole story part rushed.

And if Atlantis really was influencing the whole John/Teyla hook-up then the both of them were just arguably date raped and I am a little horrified that they then had to apologize for that.

No, I don't think that Atlantis was--though huh. If you connect it back to the chair, now that makes an intersting concept.

It was more--and here we enter deeply into Personal Jenn Reading Interpretation. So believe me, disagreement is pretty much expected:

John's first marriage was a failure, he married her, presumably becuase he thought he was supposed to, and it failed spectacularly. But I also read it--at least from John's thoughts--that it also failed because he didn't connect to her for wahtever reason, which could have been the gay aspect but also may have to do with the non-connection aspect. So it didnt' mean anything to him, the marriage--he said he never thought about it, and he probably doesn't.

But hte marriage to Teyla was significant, which he hadn't expected, because his marriage was to someone he *did* have a connection with in a personal freind sense (Teyla), but what overwhelmed him was the meaning for them both. Not that they were John and Teyla who got married, but that they were Pegasus and Atlantis, getting married, even though Rodney's teh one to articulate it. In that sense, the sex was kind of symbolic of the joining of the City of the Ancients, John, with Pegasus, Teyla, which was pretty much what the ceremony was all about. (If you think about it in terms of marriage as defined by consummation, not just the ceremony.)

OTOH, it's not like I didn't twitch, too.

(I do like the fact that the marriage is, at least fairly soon after this, acknowledged to be the joining of the symbols and not people, if it was common knowledge that John was involved with Rondey and Teyla wiht her second in command. I was wondering, rather curious, if the Pegasus natives saw it as other than the symbolic joining of Pegasus and Atlantis; I got the feeling from the text that if they didnt' at teh marriage, they did fairly soon after. I coudl be wrong.)

I like the idea of the whole thing being symbolic, but it was already that without the sex *G*. That neither Teyla or John seemed to realize what kind of further kick in the head that was to Rodney just didn't work for me. And I tried reading the story the second time deliberately skipping the post wedding sex scene and the story still worked the same, so why have it in there in the first place?

Good point. I didn't really see the plot-forwardness of it either, to be honest. But weirdly, realizing it was a Ces story, and keeping in mind 3 Lovers, I kind of half-expected it, which why it didn't shock me. Just made me feel bad for Rodney. Which I hate to do, because he has half a fandom to do that for him. *grins*

And the dogtags; I originally thought they were talking about Rodney wearing John's, except the timeline was wrong for that, too, but argh. I am so overthinking.
Yes! I thought that when that scientist (Bender) mentioned Rodney wearing dogtags, they were John's (which would also explain Rodney blushing), but John only gave them to him before the wedding, which is after the first wave of people left. At first I thought that maybe Bender was one of the six diplomats from operation Snow White, but he wasn't and yes, confused.

(hope you don't mind me butting in)

No no feel free! I was trying to decide if maybe the team had them already, you know? I'm kind of sitting in that place.

(there is no butting in during discussion! There is only discussion!)

(And still squeeing on the chair sex and politics and etc.)

I was trying to decide if maybe the team had them already, you know? I'm kind of sitting in that place.
Maybe? But what about flushed!Rodney? :D At first I thought that maybe he associated the tags with the dirty, dirty things John did to him when he gave Rodney a pair of his own tags, but that also doesn't make sense, because I got the impression that Rodney kissed him for the first time after Elizabeth's announcement. ??

(God, the multiple orgasm chair scene. I was making tiny whimpering noises, because Ces was feeding my John/Atlantis kink LIKE WHOA with that part).

And I'm having a great time reading the 'John/Teyla Sex: yea or nay?' discussion, because that part bothered me as well, but I can't put my finger on why exactly.

*nod* I am enjoying it too, especially how it relates to the later scenes. did you see the anonymous above? I hadn't thought of that.

did you see the anonymous above? I hadn't thought of that.
I did, and yeah, me neither. But it kinda makes sense?

It's weird: this story is 55,000 words long and yet I feel it should have been much, much longer, because I'm stuck with tons of 'yeah, but what about this or that?' questions.

That confused me too. My current interpretation is that the dogtags mentioned in the beginning are Rodney's own, and that he's blushing because they suggests that he's abandoning the scientists in favour of the military contingent. I'm not saying that that's what they really mean, just that Rodney knows that that's what his colleges will think. In a way it is true too, because he doesn't belong with the other labrats anymore, he's team.

That is kind of where I'm at, too.

Mmm, yes, I could settle for that interpretation. *g*

huh. squee range.

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