huh. squee range.

[seperis]

Okay, so finally I sat down to sort through my bookmarks to read discussion on cesperanza's new fic--because I have done my homework. (Really. I mean, not all! But you know, some random amount.) So I deserve a reward. And chocolate milk.

Except--um. Is anyone discussing it *not* a member of academia or just really conversant with the themes of that? This is odd--but this is the first time in fandom I've felt my sheer lack of a degree in anything this strongly, because I am seriously *not able to follow* or really get into any discussion I've seen so far. But mostly, I just don't get what's being discussed. Okay, it's more the 'why' of what is being talked about. But it's also the feeling that I'm reading something in German but in this case, even throwing it through the translators isn't helping, as I have no translators and seriously. What are you people talking about?

It's very--I don't know. I wish for squee, but no place is squeeing on a level of "oh my god this is so awesome remember the part with the chair room" but mostly on the "did you notice the dissertation and footnotes of the x, y, z, it reminds me of that time back when I was teaching Very Horrifically Difficult Literature..." I am on a different squee range.

Er. That's kind of an exaggeration, but mostly not, because I'm serious, ,I am seeing in otherwise accessible ljs this entire--I don't know. It's like I'm missing some huge chunk of context. I keep having to fight down the urge to ask "WHY ARE WE DISCUSSING FOOTNOTE FORMAT" or something, because oh my God.

If I ask for an explanation of the squee range, is that going to show just dreadfully my terribly non-high-literature-inclinations so much that all will lose respect for me or something? I'm seriously kind of dazed by how inaccessible I'm finding a lot of these conversations.

Help? I'm kind of moving from dazed to the 'frustrated and annoyed' place and that can only end in staring resentfully at my laptop and eating way too much haagen-daz.

ETA: I now have people doing threads of squee and non-academic meta discussion. I have found nirvana. Yay!

Comments

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, squee all over the place.

As far as I'm concerned, the Chair should ALWAYS make John orgasm! And then he can try to hide it and be all embarrassed afterwards until Rodney finds out, and then there would be much sexing, both with the Chair and without.

[burntcopper.livejournal.com]

learn to swear in British English, it's all about the poetical form, darling. (or as we put it, 'arse' is a far more satisfying syllable to use as an expletive than 'ass')

And 'verbal bollocks' is true. I used to reel out critical examinations throughout art school for the art history/essay portion that was almost entirely off the top of my head and had about the depth of Paris Hilton. I told my tutors several times that I could save paper by summing it up in five words or less and that I was making it up, but no, they were more impressed by the waffle.

[trobadora]

You know, the thing is - I'm totally with you, only from the opposite side. I seriously think the discussion isn't about the story, there's just mindless squee over the coolness of HISTORIANS DEBATING THE MEANING OF MCSHEP OMG. And - I want people to talk about things like, wasn't it way too pat the way things all fell into place in Pegasus? and - I love secession stories, but didn't this one make it too easy for our guys? and - oh, you know. *grumbles*

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Someone downthread--somewhere--was murmruing something in taht direction.

I was kind of wary on teh speed of everything, to be honest--it just feels, to me, like sometimes that was way too much fit into a year and a half (ish).

(honestly, one day, I really want someone to write a war story. I think it woudl be fun to see Pegasus really go to war, and not the mostly bloodless but lots of dead wraith-killed bodies kind either, mostly because it's kind of thought provoking how the civilizations with higher tech or population *aren't* out there turning on neighbors more. Hell, we've only seen *one planet collaborate* with teh Wraith, and that's just, in the scheme of things, *odd*.)

[trobadora]

Yeah, I completely agree - too much happened, too easily, and it's as if they went from Atlantis-as-we-know-it to this marketplace-whatever kingdom-type thing as easily as snapping their fingers. It's - I want there to be a struggle, you know? I don't want Pegasus to just fall at their feet. That really bothered me, actually. Same with the initial decision to secede, actually - I wanted there to be a real sense of struggle, and not just of the "OMG WHAT WILL RODNEY DO" kind. You don't leave everything behind that easily, even if you very strongly believe it's the right thing to do. But there was - you never got the sense that they gave anything up, you know? And for me, that's half the fun of secession stories - giving up something that matters because of something that matters more. Not to mention that after season 1, I just don't buy that it's that easy to make it in Pegasus. My disbelief, watch it unsuspend. *g*

(And if someone were to write that war story, I'd squee like crazy. So much potential in Pegasus, and half the fandom prefers to turn everyone into spear-wielding savages. *sighs*)

[seperis.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

And for me, that's half the fun of secession stories - giving up something that matters because of something that matters more. Not to mention that after season 1, I just don't buy that it's that easy to make it in Pegasus. My disbelief, watch it unsuspend. *g*

Hmm. You know, that would be an interesting thought--of a group of planets with the tech to *hide* and keep safe by exposing others. (now referring to the spear-thing).

(I wish you read in Star Trek Voyager, het. This one author created this very, very awesome concept that I fell deeply in love with and have really wanted to adapt to Pegasus. *I'm trying to figure out if I can find the relevant parts that describe it to let you read and get your opinion, because it's *so* neat but I'm still wary if it fits *into* pegasus.)

And yes--the sacrifice part is what attracts me, too. I have a *serious* thing for that, especially if it's a choice, not like "earth cuts off atlantis!" which I also love but for different reasons.

[trobadora]

Hmm. You know, that would be an interesting thought--of a group of planets with the tech to *hide* and keep safe by exposing others.

OMG, YES! I'm completely convinced already that this must exist somewhere in Pegasus. I mean, the moment you hear it, it makes sense - of course it would! Now that would be an interesting Pegasus culture.

I wish you read in Star Trek Voyager, het. This one author created this very, very awesome concept that I fell deeply in love with and have really wanted to adapt to Pegasus.

I do read Voyager het - I was a J/C shipper once. *g* And I don't mind other pairings, so long as it's not something like Janeway/Neelix. (Which I have also read - once. I'm still traumatised.) And does Janeway/prehensile plant count as het or slash? ;-) Seriously, you have me intrigued here - tell me more!

And about choices - there's this Dumbledore line about choosing between what is easy and what is right. And that's totally it - it's not much of a choice if it's both easy and right, is it?

[seperis.livejournal.com]

http://pw2.netcom.com/~redshoes/jinx.html

The series is here. It's mentioned very very lightly in one, but two and three hit it much more specifically. It's basically, to give the short version, Mallworld, which is basically this huge intergalactic salvage yard/trading post. I just--I *love* the idea of it.

God, could you imagine an entire *planet* like this in Pegasus?

(huh, related: what if it's a syndicate of advanced planets? God. Okay. What if it's a syndicate of advanced Ancient planets? Bad Ancients, if you will.)

[aurora]

Mmm, yes, I could settle for that interpretation. *g*

[nymphaea1.livejournal.com]

It sounds as if our problems were very much the same. I will be getting to the long write up eventually, but it will be long and I do like some time to go by before I start a detailed crit of something.

[trobadora]

I'm really looking forward to your write-up! And I definitely agree that it's best to wait a bit - the more I think about it, the more things I realise about the story myself. It all needs some time to really sink in, I guess.

[trobadora]

Thanks! I'll have a look at that as soon as I get the time - it sounds fascinating! And it'd be totally cool to import it into Pegasus. I suppose the only thing you'd need to explain was how no one's heard of it before...

Bad Ancients - are there any other kind? ;-)

[ismenetruth.livejournal.com]

So, you don't know me, or anything, but I LJ-stalk you sometimes (b/c late at night I crave Crimes Against Humanity and re-read it, okay, don't judge me) and I saw this post and was like, YES. Non-academic squee!

I loved the fic. John in the chair? Caused me to make *noises*, and if I was uncomfortable with John/Teyla, the actual wedding where John goes down on his knees and MARRIES PEGASUS...god. There are no words for the awesome. Because OF COURSE John's done exactly what Elizabeth says in that interview, "extended his whole leave-no-man-behind ethos to the entire Pegasus galaxy." My John/Atlantis buttons were being pushed SO HARD.

And the first time Rodney fucks him, and John thinks he could have gone to war for this? There's no way to textually render the shriek of joy that I let out, because oh, John.

And every word Ronon ever says, but especially, "They're totally fucking with us" when the Earth ships arrive, and "It's your tribute" and...god, I love him.

But the best part of the entire thing, when I literally got goosebumps and had to curl up in a little ball of GLEE, was when Rodney realizes the Earth ships are here to attack them, not help, and then -

"This story ends with all of us dying. This story of—of—a bunch of noble revolutionaries, and our principles, and—" Rodney suddenly clamped his lips together, and John was about to say he was sorry; God, he was so sorry, when Rodney surprised him by saying, "This is the best thing I've ever done. I'm so glad I got to be here with you," and John had to cover his face fast, and try not to make noise, because Jesus.

Because, god, John wants to apologize, thinks Rodney deserves something better than to die in the middle of a fucking revolution, only Rodney is grateful that he's there, that he's there with John, and - *flails*. So perfect.

Um. That's it, mostly. /stalker commentary

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was sure Teyla was going to get pregnant from that and it would be an issue, but then it just didn't really go anywhere.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

I wondered at first if perhaps the sudden hot for each other-ness was some function of the baby machine (oh, those crazy Ancients!).

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

I would totally be behind this interpretation if she hadn't gone out of her way to portray him as v v gay and not interested in women...

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was really surprised at her characterisation, too. I got the feeling Speranza just wanted to have John fully in charge of Atlantis, so Elizabeth goes back to Earth, regardless of whether it makes sense characterisation-wise.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

The ending didn't work for me, either. It felt like a cop-out to skip to the historical texts. The SGC forces were against them, the Wraith were coming, and then...poof! Happily ever after. Historical texts as deus ex machina.

(Oh my God, I feel I spamming with comments. Sorry!)

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

Yeah, everything was easy. They had the magic ZPM maker or whatever it was, so they never had to worry about energy. They had the super weapons. Sure they had the struggle with Earth, but that seemed almost beside the point to the fact that everything in the Pegasus galaxy went their way without any struggle at all. And then even the final battle was SGC and Wraith vs Atlantis, but it was magically resolved in the blink of an eye by jumping ahead to the epilogue where it said everything was okay.

And while I can see John leaving Earth behind without a second thought, does no one else really care? Rodney cares about his MREs but not about never talking to his sister (with whom he recently reconciled...or is this universe pre-McKay and Mrs Miller? I couldn't tell where it became an AU) again. Carson didn't care about his mother? Yeah, this is John's POV, but that shouldn't be an excuse to gloss over all that (especially since doing so stripped it of much of the possible conflict).

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

I would have liked the story better if it had been gen, I think, because I wasn't that keen on the non-fiction-y parts (I am just not a reader of non-fiction, even when it's fictional non-fiction), but then the story bits mostly focused on John/Rodney, and in particular John/Rodney sexing, to the exclusion of everything else I wanted to see...

[trobadora]

Sure they had the struggle with Earth, but that seemed almost beside the point to the fact that everything in the Pegasus galaxy went their way without any struggle at all.

Yes, exactly! I really think this diminishes it.

And I can see Sheppard leaving Earth behind, but I doubt even he would do it without a second thought - mostly because he would be aware of all the problems this story neglects. After having lived through season 1 and all the problems they had due to their isolation, he wouldn't make that kind of choice lightly! But not only did the story take away all the problems, it also took away any previous awareness of them.