because it is very early and I'm very awake

[seperis]

The horrible danger of insomnia combined with friendsfriends--God. It's *crack*. I am totally understanding the draw. Currently working on avoiding ep reviews nad spoilers, since I haen't watched The Return yet.

Anyway, while cruising along, I came across an entry--oh, just an entry of SGA squee, pre-episode, mentioning this and that and then, randomly at the end, a sudden diatribe against Joe Flanigan's acting skills. There was generalized horror and repugnance and the usual--weirdly usual, almost rote--discussion of the level of suckitude, so normal I don't even *notice* with any more than a blink.

Huh, I said, and as usual, skimmed and wandered off.

But it being five in the morning, I thought, well. It's fandom, and this is what we do. We sit around dissecting shows, characters, and actors. So I have to ask, because I can--um, what the hell?

I don't pretend to be anything close to an expert on acting, other than hoping Keanu Reeves is given few lines at any given time and a lot of really good shots of him being hot. That's as far as I get on appreciating this nebulous realm of 'good' versus 'bad'. But the fairly constant discussion of Joe Flanigan's lack of talent, lack of emoting, lack of this, lack of that--often paired up, oddly enough, with essays on David Hewlett's brilliance at whatever the poster has watched/did watch/is watching--it really makes me wonder. Otherwise squeeful individuals break into really *sudden* critiques of things like how Joe performed a ten second facial expression during a scene, or lapse into--and this is what's jarring, I'm reading along on meta and halfway through the paragraph just--boom. This sudden really *odd* invective. And at first it was annoying, then I progressed to the shrug/personal taste, then I started to doubt myself and wonder if there was something wrong with *me* that I wasn't climbing on the Joe Sucks At His Job Bandwagon, and progressed to think, wait. Am I sitting here thinking I need to *look* for reasons to critique an actor because half my fandom spends quality time--and a serious number of entries--telling me that he sucks? Was my John bias showing?

Wait, I thought. I like the character of John. The character is played by Joe, who plays the character of John in a way I like. Ergo, I think I like how Joe does his job. I remembered the stuff thepouncer sent me and thought, huh. I liked that, too. That was kind of a relief.

I think at this point, it's just the build-up of seeing it so often--wow, so damned often, Jesus--and seeing it, not always, but a good chunk of the time, in direct contrast to a meta on DH's fantastical talent. Long, long entries on fantastical talent. Long, long entries on fantastical talent and etcetera. And you know, the coolness is there to love the actor. What I can't quite work out is how slamming Joe comes into a essay about how great DH is. Is that--supporting evidence or something? That kind of loses me in wondering what on earth the point is. I'm not sure how repeating in various formats how *much* Joe sucks is somehow going to make the DH adulation more convincing. I mean, I was sort of convinced without it? Then I just got irritated.

So I had this thought. It's a stupid thought, but then, everyone has stupid thoughts and they post them anyway. I was wondering, is there a direct correlation between how dramatic/flamboyant a character is--think McKay, Lex Luthor, Lionel Luthor, Justin Taylor--and the higher incident of actor popularity? I'm thinking of how TW in SV also picked up a lot of flack for being a sucky actor, with the exception of the times he was very flamboyant--Red comes to mind, and the beginning of season three that I can never remember the name of. Or Brian, for that matter in QaF.

Hmm. I feel this weird need to ponder this, but I also feel a real need to clean my bathroom, and neither are getting done at this second, because my greater need is to blankly stare at my flist in hopes I'll get sleepy. I'm just--weirded out by it, I think.

Comments

[shetiger.livejournal.com]

frustration with JF maybe is because he's not always enthusiastic about the show

But from everything I've read, he's highly invested in it. He wants it to get better. He wants backstory for his character and for things to make sense and not look fake. He thinks about his choices and argues for better ones. This is the guy who in the pilot decided that his character would keep Sumner's dog tags, so he made sure that they were always in his bedroom set. This is the guy, who since props wasn't giving him anything personal, furnished his bedroom set with stuff from home.

I've read a couple comments here and there about Joe not caring about acting and/or the show, and I just don't know how you can come to that conclusion (unless you just judge him by his appearance). He might not say/think/do the things fans expect him to do, but that just makes him and John more intriguing to me.

[trobadora]

I've read a couple comments here and there about Joe not caring about acting and/or the show, and I just don't know how you can come to that conclusion

I agree completely with this. In fact, I've often been delighted by how much JF's comments (I don't want to call them "complaints") about the show echo ours, e.g. his wish for more Sheppard backstory, his misgivings about regular contact with Earth... He's obviously very invested in the show.

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

I have to say WORD to that too. And point out Joe is the one who constantly praises his co-stars. DH the most. Who says he loves his job, he's just not thrilled with some aspects of it. He wants the show to be the best it can be. He begged and begged to write and EP, which TPTB killed, but he still wanted to do it. That's not someone who isn't enthusiastic about the show. He goes to CONS and people say he's shy but adorable. I've NEVER heard a bad word about him from people that have met him.

However, when two ladies got to meet Joe on the set last year and they were Shep fans, a DH/Rodney fan complained, HOw STUPID they weren't not to be all about DH/Rodney. Which was like teh breaking point for me. That's when I actively started disliking Rodney and DH a bit and getting petty in my posts in response becaues I'd had enough.

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I hate to admit, but the high fangirling of DH has, in fact, suppressed a lot of my liking for the character or any interest in the actor as well.

[clarkangel.livejournal.com]

I loved Rodney/DH at first. Not as much as Shep but...close enough. And it was totally the DH fangurling that turned me off him. I seriously HATED him and Rodney, more Rodney really cause it's not DH's fault, but because JOE was being dissed, I guess a part of me blamed DH in some weird/stupid way. I guess it rubbed off. LOL

I was writing McShep stories and had to stop because I couldn't be fair/canon to Rodney any more. And it really killed some of my love for the show fora time. Killed my SQUEE, which I hated. And I still have a KNEE JERK reaction to it. Sadly.

But THE RETURN gave me alot of Squee on a whole lot of levels.

[ileliberte.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I know rationally that someone else's opinion has no bearing on mine and really, Rodney's kind of an interesting character with his own complexity but there's so much of the "Sheppard is an unfeeling psychopath!" with its very common corollary of "and he's so meeeaaaan to Rodney!" that it makes me really turn away from Mckay. And of course, the "Sheppard is an unfeeling psycopath!" then leads directly to "Flanigan can't act!" and there go all attempts at rationality :/

[with-apostrophe.livejournal.com]

Oh no, I think I didn't express myself well. Maybe a better way would have been to say that 'he's honest and frank about the show in a way that many other actors in any series aren't'. Also I meant that it's refreshing that he is publicly pushing for better stuff - hence my point about improvements in S3.

But thank you for reminding me how invested he is. I needed that. I'd forgotten some of those points. Yeah, he cares about the show - and he does it by being honest. I did also say I find Joe's attitude refreshing... :)

[shetiger.livejournal.com]

And, oops, I didn't express myself well! I wasn't arguing with you or anything. I think that honesty probably turns some fans off, but for me, it's a positive. :)

[with-apostrophe.livejournal.com]

I really did need reminding of what he's invested into the show. That was tres cool, thanks!

And I agree that anyone who thinks Joe's not serious about the role, who take his comments about Shep being all about kissing the women, needs to find themselves a flippancy detector!

I'm also remembering comments he made about wanting to explore Sheppard's dark side. Ok, we *kind of* got it in 'Conversion' (he wasn't '100% John Sheppard') at the time, but I'd love to see more. Hey PTB - how about letting your leading man flex his acting muscles that way a bit more? The fandom can cope with it!