sv - insurgence

[seperis]

I'm hoping in the future, Lex gets a better class of subordinates.

*sighs* This is the reason I love Smallville.



I loved this episode. It is so damn good I wonder if this was slipped in by accident.

Okay, anytime Lex gets to be actively Lex? Always good. So what if every DAMN time he gets to do anything, it has to be a bad thing or a questionable thing or a shooting thing. Which, if next week is any indiction, the show is going to do something as bizarre as possible, so I'll just stick with this.

Lex has GOT to get himself a good minion.

Seriously here. His biggest pitfall right now is that he's just not naturally very good at picking reliable hired muscle and criminals. It's frustrating. He's smart, he has money, nad the boy has absolutely NO instincts on how to pick people who would be scared to death to cross you. *sighs* Poor baby.

So lo, Martha stood up for herself. I liked it. Jonathan was an ass. Everything was going pretty much like one might expect. God, it was nice to see Martha stand up for herself.

I do like how Jonathan never apologizes or really backs down, though. He just looked mildly abashed every time he behaved like an ass. Can the man apologize? Or is that unmanly in some way?

Minimal Lana. YAY!

Okay, I'll be far more coherent, but the Lex woobieness is kiling me. He gave up Jonathan beautifully, in a way I hope will haunt Jonathan in later years. He's about on the edge of giving up on everything, including himself, and that end scene of him actaully brought tears to my eyes.

It's so--he's just not naturally GOOD at this sort of thing. All along, there's the genrealized feel that he's fighting destiny, of becoming his father. This is the first time it's occurred to me he's actually being dragged AWAY from his destiny of being a good and great man and instead forced into the dark by pure pressure. Which is--a very different way of looking at things. Because he jsut isn't GOOD at it. It's not just his age, either, or his impetuousness--he's simply not wired that way.

I'm thinking he's going to be rewiring himself very soon so he can. *sighs*

Lex, when you go dark, it's almost going to be a relief. Just so he won't hurt anymore.

*sniffles*

I'll be relatively analytical later, but damn. I'm utterly beside myself with sheer excitement.

Comments

[seperis.livejournal.com]

I have to agree here. Whether or not Jonathan was right is irrelevant to the point--he did not have anywhere near enough information to make that jump to conclusions. He said that because it was LEX, the Luthor, etc etc etc, which pretty much dovetails with his other actions in this ep.

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

Deadlychameleon said, "Lionel's got enemies, and it's not unreasonable to think Lex might know them."

Yes, LuthorCorp has enemies-- about a million of them. It is extremely unlikely that Lex could have tracked down the one specific guy who hired the intruders, since nobody knew their names, what they were after, etc. (And if he had done that, why not turn that man over to the police? And even if he *had* tracked down the man who hired the intruders, why would that man give him the cell phone number? It doesn't make any sense.)

Jenn: Whether or not Jonathan was right is irrelevant to the point--he did not have anywhere near enough information to make that jump to conclusions.

I disagree. On the outside of the building, nobody knew that these intruders had originally been hired to bug Lionel's office. As far as Jonathan and the police knew, they were a gang of independent thieves who'd gotten interrupted on their way to rob the safe Lionel's office. Nobody had a reason to think the intruders were being controlled by anyone from the outside, which is why it was so suspicious when someone turned out to be in communication with them.

We have to look at what Jonathan knows. He knows that Lionel recently bugged Lex's office. He knows that Lex hasn't always been trustworthy, even in his relationship withe Kents and Clark.

When he overheards Lex talking to the people on the inside, first he demands to know what's going on. Lex could have lied, there-- he could have offered all the excuses you guys have come up with. He didn't even try. He knows Jonathan's not jumping to an unreasonable conclusion. He doesn't look offended-- he looks guilty. He got caught.

So he tells the truth, but not all of the truth, which is his constant pattern, and basically says, "Whatever I'm doing, I'm doing for the best interests of Martha and Lionel."

Jonathan *knows* he's being stonewalled, and he knows he's not getting the entire truth. So he says "*If* I find out you had anything to do with this--"

Not, "I knew it was your fault all along." He *doesn't* jump to the conclusion that Lex did it all, just from overhearing part of the one conversation. He jumps to the conclusion that since Lex is *talking to* the bad guys when he should, logically, have no reason to *be* talking to them, and since Lex *has no good explanation* for how he can be talking to them-- that he might have had something to do with it, and *if* Jonathan finds out that's definitively the case, he's gonna be pissed.

You're saying he didn't have enough information to jump to the conclusion that he jumped to, but he did.

(1) Lex has the intruders' cell number.
(2) There's really no likely way for Lex to have that number unless he if he had it before the incident occurred. If the intruders had wanted to negotiate with Lex instead of the police, why wouldn't they have just demanded that the police put *Lex on the phone?*
(3) Lex *has no* explanation. Don't tell me "Oh, Jonathan wouldn't have listened." If Lex had said "They called me, jackass," that would have been a perfectly good explanation. But he offers nothing. No defense. He has no defense.

If it had been "any other character" on the phone, Jonathan might not have reacted the same way, but it wasn't any other character, it was Lex-- who hasn't always been trustworthy and aboveboard in his dealings with the Kents, who's put Clark in danger before thanks to his actions. Jonathan has no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt; he knows Lex well enough to judge his behavior accurately, which is *what he did.*

[deadlychameleon.livejournal.com]

Part of this may be my interpretation of my gut reaction to the scene, which was that Jonathan's accusation was sudden, if explainable by mistrust and adrenaline.

Yes, LuthorCorp has enemies-- about a million of them.
There are always enemies mor e currently irritated than others.
(And if he had done that, why not turn that man over to the police? And even if he *had* tracked down the man who hired the intruders, why would that man give him the cell phone number? It doesn't make any sense.)
Now we're totally off in theory land, about a what if of a what if. Just for giggles though, the enemy he found could have been the man in the building himself, not a hiree. And how would Jonathan know what Lex has and has not told the police? The pol ice aren't talking to Jonathan. Only to Lex.

We have to look at what Jonathan knows. He knows that Lionel recently bugged Lex's office.
Does he? I need to rewatch this episode, but I think Jonathan cut Clark off when he was trying to tell him abo ut it.


1) Lex has the intruders' cell number.
I don't think Jonathan saw Lex dial the cellphone or pick it up, Lex is probably savvy enough to do that out of sight of Jonathan. And there was way too much noise to prove or disprove that the phone ra ng.
(2) There's really no likely way for Lex to have that number unless he if he had it before the incident occurred. If the intruders had wanted to negotiate with Lex instead of the police, why wouldn't they have just demanded that the police put * Lex on the phone?*
They didn't want whatever they said to Lex to be recorded by the police. Calling him on his cell allows them a possible escape from the police, and money. Had they survived, they could have gotten 2 million dollars out of that p ho ne call.
(3) Lex *has no* explanation. Don't tell me "Oh, Jonathan wouldn't have listened." If Lex had said "They called me, jackass," that would have been a perfectly good explanation. But he offers nothing. No defense. He has no defense.

Le x * can't* tell Jonathan the truth. For a lot of reasons.

Did Jonathan judge Lex's behavior accurately? I think not. I don't know what Jonathan thought Lex's connection to the kidnappers was, but I sure don't think he thought it was a bug planting missio n gone bad. What really bothers me about J is that even had he known, he wouldn't have cared. He can see shades of gray when asking his son to break into medical labs, but not when trying to save the jobs and mortgages of Smallville. If he he knew the tru th, h e would still be pissed at Lex for endangering his wife, as if breaking into medical facilities and damaging test equipment couldn't have had pretty serious repurcussions. What if someone's cancer tests had been damaged or something? What if Clark h ad had to knock out someone and had knocked them a little too hard?

The Kents and the Luthors are both constantly lying to one another, not to mention breaking the law.

Clark does understand and accept Lex's actions, but Jonathan doesn't try. Jonathan's distrust is pulling Lex and Clark apart, which irritates me.
-Silverkyst