You know, no matter how many times I watch it, it never is anything but awesome. This also reminds me why I resented Willow's second girlfriend in Season 7 so much, other than the fact she annoyed the crap out of me in her constant aggression against Buffy (Note: my liking of any character rose and feel on How They Treated Buffy; I still wish I could set Riley on fire. I OTC Buffy like whoa); I really, really, really loved Tara. But God, why did they dress her like that? Some of the outfits worked, but working on a flowy theme sometimes ends you in things that make you look like you are wearing a sack, and for the life of me I can't figure out why they did that.

I am ambivalent to report I can still sing every song, due to the soundtrack being on rotation pretty much constantly since I got it, but in context the barbed lyrics really hit me, and not just version one of "I'm Under Your Spell"; this is the first time I listened to Giles' solo and had the uneasy feeling that the bigger problem wasn't his worry that Buffy wasn't standing on her own and it was because he was playing her father; it was because he really, really didn't feel fatherly and boy was this situation going This Could End in Semi-Incestuous (Except Not!) Tragedy.

[Digression: and honestly, in the shape Buffy was in, it's not like it wasn't a likely possibility and not even, in retrospect, a bad one, considering the events of season six. I ship Buffy/Spike like a religion, and I am all about Buffy standing on her own two feet, but it pissed me off so much that no one seemed to get she literally couldn't and no amount of will in the world would fix that; she needed time and it was the one thing no one gave her. I could go on about that all day. Er, but not now.]

Which--I am not opposed to. I never shipped them, like, ever, but then there was Uther of Camelot and everything changed.

*hands* I don't even know what to do with that. I blame Merlin.

I also didn't realize how much the lyrics spell out all the events of season six either, and sometimes not even metaphorically. That was--uncomfortable.

This has been a message from My One True Fandom. Child was born the week of the first episode and I remember seeing the first ep and going "Holy shit, you mean that weird movie with Dylan from 90210? You got to be kidding me." And then five seconds later, I fell in love.

I also think I'm one of the few people who loved all the seasons, but my favorites in some ways is still seasons five and six. I like more episodes in the other seasons, but season six's themes picked up everything that I hadn't expected them to cover from earlier seasons and ran with them. It was not what I'd call enjoyable so much as "difficult to look away" and "really painful" and "Why isn't Riley on fire yet from my burning hatred" and "Fuck everyone ever, except Buffy" and "Oh my God no (many times)" and I have yet to be able to do season six in a single sitting (I break it up with bits from season five and seven; when you need to watch "The Gift" to get an emotional break and cry your eyes out, then wow, yeah)--and I didn't expect to write this much about it.

Must revisit [profile] rivak_t and [livejournal.com profile] mustangsally for fic happiness.
lydiabell: (Default)

2011-05-30 04:12 am (UTC)
I am all about Buffy standing on her own two feet, it pissed me off so much that no one seemed to get she literally couldn't and no amount of will in the world would fix that; she needed time and it was the one thing no one gave her.

Preach it. And yet, with everyone else but Giles, I can see how they might not have understood her need for that. The Scoobies really needed her to be Buffy again ASAP, for world-saving reasons and Dawn-raising reasons and for their own emotional reasons (not least, reassurance that they had done the right thing in resurrecting her). But for Giles to leave her because she needed him utterly fails to compute. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a more out-of-character action in the series.
edited at 2011-05-30 04:13 am (UTC)
beck_liz: Buffy Fan. No Apologies. (Buffy Fan by wisteria_)

2011-05-30 02:18 pm (UTC)
(Note: my liking of any character rose and feel on How They Treated Buffy; I still wish I could set Riley on fire. I OTC Buffy like whoa)

It's clearly time for me to break out this icon. I had SO MUCH TROUBLE dealing with BTVS fandom in the latter seasons, OMG. Especially with my fellow Spike and Buffy/Spike fans, since many of them seemed to ship Buffy/Spike but HATE Buffy. Drove me mad, it did.

I love the musical episode so much. Still in my top five favorite episodes.

Have you seen this vid of the musical episode, by the way? It's awesome and I love it. It's actually her first vid, if you can believe it.
malkingrey: (Default)

2011-05-30 02:36 pm (UTC)
I'm a weirdo -- I liked Season Four, and I even liked Riley. I remain a Buffy/Spike shipper at heart, but Buffy and Riley had what could have been a perfectly nice recovery-from-the-disaster-that-was-Angel relationship that probably would have come to a natural and relatively amicable end somewhere around Buffy's sophomore year, if it hadn't been for the Initiative and brain tumors and general Hellmouthy badness.

(True confession time: Having done my time as a camp follower Navy wife, I've known a number of guys like Riley, and liked most of them a lot.)
out_there: Perfect reaction to so much of the internet (Scrubs: Aaaah! by Oxoniensis)

2011-05-31 03:01 am (UTC)
Buffy and Riley had what could have been a perfectly nice recovery-from-the-disaster-that-was-Angel relationship that probably would have come to a natural and relatively amicable end somewhere around Buffy's sophomore year

I will say that I like Riley and Riley/Buffy in S4. It's the pushing of S5 that bothers me about it -- but you're right, to a good extent the relationship ended so badly due to external pressures. Riley acted badly but at the start, he was a good guy and definitely what Buffy needed post-Angel.
concinnity: (Default)

2011-05-30 04:46 pm (UTC)
a) YAY BUFFY!
b) Huh. I can *only* watch S6 all in a row. Its a train I just can't get off.
c) It took me getting a *lot* older to see that in Giles. The first, I dunno, 5 times I watched the series, I was still on the side of stumped. And Buffy/Giles fic squicked me so much I couldn't read it. But now? Yeah, I can see it.
monanotlisa: (buffy look up - btvs)

2011-05-30 07:39 pm (UTC)
Fascinating; c) sounds really familiar. It's almost impossible to squick me with fanfic, and Buffy/Giles never made the list at any point in time, but I think I snorted in amusement at the very idea back when I first saw the show. And yet, and yet: Upon every single re-watch, I found Buffy/Giles more central, Giles more likeable, and while never coded as acting Improper, more of a man (as opposed to a gender-less guardian of sorts) to Buffy's young woman.

As for a) -- oh, God, I loved Buffy so. Very. Much. Jenn, like you, I've always viewed the show through her eyes, defined characters accordingly; it's definitely something I do with all fave female characters of mine (ask me about Olivia Dunham right now). Thus, most of Riley in Season Four is fine with me but when he changed from being a source of shiny feelings in Buffy's life -- from being merely Mission's Boyfriend -- my attitude shifted along with that perspective.
jamjar: (Default)

2011-05-30 04:49 pm (UTC)
Buffy and Giles is still the most important relationship in the show for me-- not necessarily in a shippy way (though I've no objection to that either), just that I would read all the fic about them, I would happily watch the episode where they, I don't know, go over stock at the magic shop or train or bake a victoria sponge together. They seemed to care for each other the most... well, the most sincerely-- not that others didn't, but with them, it seemed like what they really wanted most for the other person was for them to be good in themselves, and to *be*-- and that yes, there was reality meaning that you had to compromise what you want for someone with what the world needs to happen, but that's not what they wanted, just what had to happen. In some ways, they wanted the least from each other and the most for each other.

Also, so with you on the Riley-hate and it still infuriates me that the show seemed to almost reward him for being awful and for making Buffy feel bad about herself.
out_there: B-Day Present '05 (Default)

2011-05-31 02:58 am (UTC)
...my favorites in some ways is still seasons five and six. I like more episodes in the other seasons, but season six's themes picked up everything that I hadn't expected them to cover from earlier seasons and ran with them. It was not what I'd call enjoyable so much as "difficult to look away" and "really painful" and "Why isn't Riley on fire yet from my burning hatred" and "Fuck everyone ever, except Buffy" and "Oh my God no (many times)"

I will say that my favourite things about s5 and s6 is that the flaws, the weaknesses, the things that tear them apart are all character traits that were there from the very beginning. There was so much pain and hurt, but not one character was re-written to fit the storyline (as so many shows do *frowns*). Nope, this was everyone's individual strengths and weaknesses intersecting.

BtVS willl always be the fandom of my heart, I have to say. I didn't get into it until, hmmm, s5 was airing (the double Xander episode was my first episode seriously watched. I'd flicked and caught Bad Eggs before, but hadn't watched the whole thing). And then I caught up on everything that had happened before and fell head-over-heels for it. It remains the one show that I can always, always rewatch.
harpers_child: melaka fray reading from "Tales of the Slayers". (biblophile)

2011-06-03 03:07 pm (UTC)
first fandom always. i'll always relate to buffy as being a year ahead of me in school. there's a reason my default is from a tie-in comic.

i'm only a spike/buffy shipper when it's not that buffy and spike. season six buffy and spike were too broken to do each other any good.
katekat: (b/g - in the library)

2011-06-03 08:16 pm (UTC)
Ok, i know this comment is so totally late that it's practically useless, but along the oh dear Giles and Buffy? lines, take a look at this vid that came out today - it's actually not meant to be shippy, but...
ext_3386: (Default)

2011-05-30 02:39 am (UTC)
Why did they dress ANYONE like that, on Buffy, is the question. (Answer: because the dressers were frustrated, hostile, drunken clowns.)

2011-05-30 02:45 am (UTC)
The Ren-fair thing works sometimes--early on in that ep, Tara in the green corset-top? Burning hot--but later? WTF? I can't even figure out what they were doing with that sometimes; it didn't seem to have a pattern. Just suddenly busting out the shapeless clothes, and seriously, Tara's drop-dead gorgeous even dressed in a sack; IDEK what they were going for with some of her outfits.
ext_3386: (Default)

2011-05-30 02:48 am (UTC)
She is drop-dead gorgeous! Sarah Michelle Gellar is drop-dead gorgeous! Alyson Hannigan is drop-dead-come-back-as-a-zombie-of-GORGEOUSNESS gorgeous, and dear god, the clothes they put on her! Why, in the name of sanity?

2011-05-30 02:49 am (UTC)
*shivers* Drunken hostile zombie clown dressers. Yes. I agree.

2011-06-01 11:37 pm (UTC)
Willow was an outcast, therefore she must dress like her mother still thought she was ten years old. It was either that or the Goth look. They were saving hippie/ren faire for Tara. Come to think of it, even though we never met Mom Rosenberg, I'll bet she never did notice Willow was no longer ten.
fyrdrakken: (Absinthe)

2011-06-02 09:31 pm (UTC)
We saw Mom Rosenberg in exactly one episode, when she and Joyce were happily burning Willow and Buffy at the stake under the influence of the monster-of-the-week. IIRC, the impression of Mom Rosenberg we got was career-oriented and indeed frequently oblivious to what was going on in her daughter's life.

(Anonymous)
2011-05-30 05:30 am (UTC)
Tara *is* drop-dead gorgeous even in a sack--that's why they had to put her in a sack. It's a classic "pretty ugly girl" scenario: the character's supposed to be mousy and underconfident, but it's easier to cast a hot actress and give her wardrobe cues (see also, S1 Willow) than to find the one mousy looking girl in Hollywood who hasn't given up on ever being an actress. It's a credit to the wardrobe department that they didn't just go with the usual "glasses and a ponytail" look. :)

--Jessica

2011-05-30 03:43 am (UTC)
I know, sometimes they were right on the money with Tara and then sometimes, ::winces::.

I've noticed that too about Here Are The Themes We'll Be Dealing With Now, and also, it will never, ever get old to me either. I still get all happy awesome proud teary when the firetruck goes by at the exact right moment EVERY TIME.
luminosity: (SPN-BTVS-Buffy on phone)

2011-05-30 04:01 am (UTC)
Way back when, when Buffy was still on the air, I read that they dressed Tara that way because she was too luscious, and they had to tone her down a bit. I agree. They toned her down a bit. A HUGE bit.

I miss Buffy. I love Buffy. *verklempt*

2011-05-30 04:52 am (UTC)
I still wish I could set Riley on fire

You and my hubby would get along great. He hates Riley with this rabid, about to start foaming at the mouth passion that is amazing. We both call him that potato head boy and I cherish cherish the 'when Riley met Angel' fight because it was awesome.

2011-05-30 05:11 am (UTC)
*wistful* If only we could have seem him die. God I hate Riley. He's the only character on BtVS that I never had a single redeeming moment for me.

2011-05-30 05:20 am (UTC)
I'm still incapable of saying "Riley Finn" without sneering. I'm okay with that.

2011-05-30 08:16 am (UTC)
I am rewatching the whole of Buffy from the start and am only onto season 4 - but already want to set Riley on fire. I only realized while rewatching that I didn't actually originally watch much of them UNTIL season 4. it means I didn't even realize that Willow and Xander had ever had a thing. I just assumed it was always unrequited. It also means I am not really all that emotionally invested in Willow's relationship with Oz.
kathyh: (Kathyh Merlin Uther)

2011-05-30 08:39 am (UTC)
I never shipped them, like, ever, but then there was Uther of Camelot and everything changed.

I know!! I watched OMWF just the other week and did wonder about Giles/Buffy, which for someone who's always been a crazed Buffy/Spike shipper was a little bit odd. It may be the fact that ASH just gets hotter as the years go by!

The clothing choices for Tara were just weird!

Even though "Merlin" is my one true fannish love these days revisiting Buffy is always a pleasure. She'll always be my girl.

2011-05-30 10:09 am (UTC)
OMWF, for all its flaws, is still perfection. I know that sentence doesn't make sense, but you know what I mean! :)

2011-05-30 11:30 am (UTC)
I loved the early seasons the best (omg 'Passion' and 'Surprise' and 'Innocense' *sigh* not to mention the Angel ep where he got to be human for the day....), but there were some outstanding eps later on and OMWF is definitely one of them - damn it now I want to re-watch it all too!!

(you know the sad thing is I actually quite liked the name Riley till Riley Finn ruined it for me, now I can never name anything that *pouts*)

2011-05-30 11:34 am (UTC)
The clothes on this show sometimes, SRSLY.

2011-05-30 05:12 pm (UTC)
I'm not even a real fan of Buffy, but I've seen the musical like 5 times. And I have the songs in my PC. That episode was amazing.

Also, pretty much everyone in that show was dressed horribly. I mean, they put Sarah Michelle Gellar in some nice outfits from time to time, but mostly? AWFUL.
kernezelda: (Mini Me)

2011-05-30 06:55 pm (UTC)
*says in a small voice* I liked Riley.

Tara was dressed horribly for the most part, and I don't know why. I could understand Willow's geek-girl choices (most of the time) but the thing in OMWF that always, always drives me crazy is that horrible outfit poor Tara wears after the lovely corset-dress. I mean, the finale with Buffy in the lead while Anya and Tara sing back-up is so great, except for Tara's dress! AGH!

I have all the major songs memorized, too, and often play them because I love OMWF like burning. I also love Xena's first musical, the Xena/Ares seduction scenes especially. Mmmm.

2011-05-31 12:33 am (UTC)
I like Riley too! Something about the character really resonated with me. I think it's partly the reason that even though I love Buffy, I could never really get in the fandom.

My sister, OTOH, was a huge Angel fan. She's still bitter over the fact that I once served David Boreanaz and didn't get his autograph (it seemed tacky! and I think he was trying to be incognito.) (Also, the guy is huge! Shoulders like a construction worker.)

Buffy Forever

2011-05-30 09:06 pm (UTC)
I still miss this amazing amazing show like crazy. It made me unable to enjoy anything else for a long time. Charmed, Roswell and many others never even registered because they couldn't compare. I still have to watch Angel seasons 3, 4 and 5, but I could care less. It's always been all about BUFFY. I shared her pain, every fucking time. Brilliant show from start to finish. Good old days full of dangerous, fucked up, ├╝ber-cool vampires. As far as I'm concerned, Edward Cullen and Stefan Salvatore should die in a fire along with Riley.

2011-05-30 09:14 pm (UTC)
Buffy was only my second fan obsession after the original Star Trek. I got Gilesed quickly. I have no problem seeing a B/G ship since I have friends with over 20 years separating them, and they have both been married over 20 years. And to the clothes...yeah, Tara and Willows mostly sucked. And a Giles in Tweed was appropo, but the stretched, baggy sweaters of season 4, and the horrible corduroy jackets in season 7 were atrocious. Did like the nice suits in season 5 though. In OMWF in my opinion, he and Amber had the best voices. Agree with you on Riley.

2011-05-31 02:13 am (UTC)
I think in general the wardrobe people on Buffy sucked. Sometimes they'd put together a great look, then sometimes I'd spend more time looking at wtf someone was wearing than focusing on what they were saying/doing. LOL.

P.S.: My favorite seasons of Buffy were 5/6, also because I enjoyed so many individual episodes and themes. <3

2011-05-31 01:47 pm (UTC)
I took a musicals class in college, and we studied the Buffy musical. My preceptor, who'd never seen any other Buffy, was convinced that the big unresolved romance was Buffy/Giles.

2011-05-31 02:29 pm (UTC)
It's terrifying how much I agree with that now after his solo watching her jump around. Just--wow.

2011-05-31 05:12 pm (UTC)
Mmmmm Giles... seriously, have you seen the Rocky Horror thing he did with Amber Benson et al in London? You will never look at him the same way again.

And yes, I hated the Buffy/Riley so much. Mind you, I didn't care for the Buffy/Angel at all either. They neither of them wanted her to be herself--Angel put her on a pedestal and Riley seriously underestimated her capabilities. I hated Riley more because he came between her and the Scoobies.

Also, I had to close my eyes for a lot of season six because of all the shitty behavior. I blocked out most of the rest besides OMWF.
ext_6615: (buffyhope)

2011-05-31 06:55 pm (UTC)
my liking of any character rose and feel on How They Treated Buffy; I still wish I could set Riley on fire. I OTC Buffy like whoa

Me too, so much.

And I am still bitter that Riley wasn't killed off in a suitably painful way. (The one episode I will never rewatch is As You Were because I hate Riley so much it is unbearable. And I hate the writer for all the pointless humiliation of Buffy too.)
fyrdrakken: (Giles - books)

2011-06-02 09:28 pm (UTC)
Haven't watched the show for years (and I left the active fandom before the end, what with falling in love with Wolverine X-Men movieverse and shifting my primary fandom allegiance, though I kept watching the show through the finale), but I was in the Buffy/Giles camp. Not from the beginning -- "Helpless" was the episode for which I fell, hard. Before that, I'd just been vaguely watching most of the episodes because it was on at a semi-convenient time and some of my DS9 fan-friends were saying it was really good.

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